The SASS Wild Bunch Forum

Wild Bunch Boards => Wild Bunch Rules Forum => Topic started by: Sgt Eli on June 20, 2014, 08:40:03 PM

Title: ~Attempted Re-holstering~
Post by: Sgt Eli on June 20, 2014, 08:40:03 PM
If a shooter attempts to re-holster the 1911 getting the muzzle in the holster but not letting go of the pistol, haven't they broken the 170? Since we are not allowed to re-holster the shooter is not given the latitude to break the 170 to holster as allowed in CAS.
Title: Re: ~Attempted Re-holstering~
Post by: Wild Bodie Tom on June 25, 2014, 10:23:10 AM
That is dependent upon a lot of varibles. Its one of those had to be there calls....
Re-holstering is a big no-no anyway.... SDQ. Just sayin
Once drawn (after the loading table of course), can only reholster AFTER being cleared by TO/RO.

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: ~Attempted Re-holstering~
Post by: Goody on June 26, 2014, 04:58:49 AM
That is dependent upon a lot of varibles. Its one of those had to be there calls....
Re-holstering is a big no-no anyway.... SDQ. Just sayin
Once drawn (after the loading table of course), can only reholster AFTER being cleared by TO/RO.

Hope that helps.

Doesn't it have to be brought into battery for that no re-holster to be effective? IE, shooter draws pistol at at wrong time, TO shouts rifle, slide has not been racked. Wouldn't it be the shooters option to lay down or reholster?
Title: Re: ~Attempted Re-holstering~
Post by: Two Dot on June 26, 2014, 06:09:11 AM
No. Once you draw the pistol you cannot reholster whether it has been
Charged or not.
Title: Re: ~Attempted Re-holstering~
Post by: J. Frank Norfleet on June 26, 2014, 07:52:56 AM
I think we are struggling to understand the nature of Sgt Eli's question.  Did the shooter break the 170 in the attempted re-holster? Which would be a SDQ.  Or, do the rules on the 170 from CAS apply on re-holstering?  Since WBAS doesn't allow re-holstering the strict view would be he broke the 170 and earned a SDQ.  Would a muzzle forward canted holster be different?  That is the TO's call.
So, I agree with Sgt Eli.
JFN
Title: Re: ~Attempted Re-holstering~
Post by: Wild Bodie Tom on June 26, 2014, 12:16:14 PM
As the rule stands now. Once the 1911 has cleared leather (drawn, charged or not), it cannot be re-holstered UNTIL cleared by the RO.
I do not understand why he would do it. But then again, had to stage DQ a guy at WinterRange for just that. It sucked, but its the rule.

In this case if he maintained his grip and did not holster and staged the pistol, he would be fine. The 170 issue is again, had to be there.......

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: ~Attempted Re-holstering~
Post by: Boggus Deal on June 27, 2014, 07:47:20 AM
I completely understand the absolutely no reholstering. Leaves the holster. No going back. Until cleared. My question is this. I accidentally draw. Can I leave a full magazine in with slide down and stage gun until I need it? Hasn't been charged. Or must I lock the slide back and stage it until I need it?
Title: Re: ~Attempted Re-holstering~
Post by: Wild Bodie Tom on June 27, 2014, 09:35:55 AM
Your second option..........
I know. I know, I know.
Title: Re: ~Attempted Re-holstering~
Post by: Allie Mo on June 27, 2014, 10:58:47 AM
As the rule stands now. Once the 1911 has cleared leather (drawn, charged or not), it cannot be re-holstered UNTIL cleared by the RO.
I do not understand why he would do it. But then again, had to stage DQ a guy at WinterRange for just that. It sucked, but its the rule.

In this case if he maintained his grip and did not holster and staged the pistol, he would be fine. The 170 issue is again, had to be there.......

Hope this helps.
I beg to differ.  :o

Following is the rule: " If charged at the wrong time or location, the pistol may be completely cleared without penalty.  The pistol may NOT be re-holstered.  It must be staged safely and then retrieved when needed. " In Bogus' situation the gun was not charged.

Regards,

Allie
Title: Re: ~Attempted Re-holstering~
Post by: Boggus Deal on June 27, 2014, 11:18:56 AM
However, Allie Mo, darlin'. If I lay the gun down with the slide closed, is that "safely" restaged??? IF it were to happen to me right now, I'm dumping the mag and locking slide back.............
Title: Re: ~Attempted Re-holstering~
Post by: Wild Bodie Tom on June 27, 2014, 11:28:28 AM
Allie, love ya.
   But if ya draw it, even NOT charging it if you are on the clock, it must go down at slidelock..... Absolutely cannot go back in the holster...... OR, ya could shoot it and eat a "P". With the slight new rule change/clarification, you could make an error, and if you clear to slidelock BEFORE you fire the next gun, no penalty. IF you fire another gun and you planted the uncharged, now unholstered gun down on the shelf as you had brainfade... and fired a long gun. You are stage DQ'ed..... It is what it is.... Don't always agree, but it's in the book. Underlined actually. Unless they slipped one by from the new book I got last Friday already.

Thanks

Tom
Title: Re: ~Attempted Re-holstering~
Post by: Allie Mo on June 27, 2014, 02:56:19 PM
Allie, love ya.
   But if ya draw it, even NOT charging it if you are on the clock, it must go down at slidelock..... Absolutely cannot go back in the holster...... OR, ya could shoot it and eat a "P". With the slight new rule change/clarification, you could make an error, and if you clear to slidelock BEFORE you fire the next gun, no penalty. IF you fire another gun and you planted the uncharged, now unholstered gun down on the shelf as you had brainfade... and fired a long gun. You are stage DQ'ed..... It is what it is.... Don't always agree, but it's in the book. Underlined actually. Unless they slipped one by from the new book I got last Friday already.

Thanks

Tom
:-*

Then, IMHO, the word "charged" should be removed as the implication is as I wrote.  ???

I wonder what Happy Jack would say about that. ;-)

Regards,

Allie
Title: Re: ~Attempted Re-holstering~
Post by: Boggus Deal on June 27, 2014, 03:16:49 PM
Allie,
After my posts earlier, I have actually had a minute to go look. On page 8 of the most recent, published manual, it says:

Safe to leave the shooter's hand- Slide locked open, empty magazine or no magazine.

I had not seen that before, hence my asking.

Title: Re: ~Attempted Re-holstering~
Post by: Wild Bodie Tom on June 27, 2014, 05:49:03 PM
Charged is the KEY word alright.

You can draw it and move with it. That is not an issue. You cannot draw it and put it back even uncharged. You go ahead and talk to Kyle..... You have far better equipment than I do perhaps to execute a different response.
  Good luck with it, and keep me posted if he "changes" his rule that states it can not go back to leather period until cleared by the RO. "uncharged" or not....LOL
Have a good one.

And the new "JUNE 2014" book is the one to look at.
Not sure thats up anywhere yet.

As far as I know however, that was not a changed subject.
The change is now you may be called back if the slide is forward before shooting the next firearm to save a stage DQ. HOWEVER, if at the end of shooting string the slide is discovered not at slidelock, and /or ya did not go back to fix it before executeing another firearm, it still is a SDQ.
They should be up soon if not now. Just changed at EOT.
Title: Re: ~Attempted Re-holstering~
Post by: Allie Mo on June 28, 2014, 01:54:35 PM
Tom,

I'll just leave it here. If he sees it, okay. If not, okay. If I ever do that, I'll take my whoopin', if I get one.

Regards,

Allie
Title: Re: ~Attempted Re-holstering~
Post by: Happy Jack on July 01, 2014, 10:47:02 AM
WBT and Boggus are correct: there are a couple of statements about handling the 1911. The one that is most important to this thread is the one on page 7 of the Shooters Handbook:

"No matter what occurs during the stage, it is imperative to remember the 1911 CANNOT be re-holstered until after the course of fire is completed and it is checked clear and made safe."

Other statements about clearing and restaging are also referenced. NO CHANGES have been made in those areas EXCEPT that if you restage the pistol with the slide forward you have until you fire the next gun the clear it without penalty.

See the definition of "Pistol in Hand" in the Glossary to determine if the pistol has actually been drawn and the penalty may be applied.

That is the ONLY rule change.  We clarified the rule about reloads being required from slidelock as many problems were occuring with the current wording. The ONLY exception to the slide lock reload rule is if the slidelock fails and you need to reload WITHOUT changing location.