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Wild Bunch Boards => The Wild Bunch Wire => Topic started by: DUSTY BODDAMS on April 12, 2017, 12:22:58 PM

Title: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: DUSTY BODDAMS on April 12, 2017, 12:22:58 PM
Over the years I've tried many oils and cleaners etc. that were supposed to be the greatest thing. Anytime that went by with most of this resulted in a slow sticky gun. Some of it useable but some seem to evaporate. Past few years I've been using Lucas gun oil the red stuff in the little bottle. I've noticed that my rails stay wet. Point of the story is I field stripped and cleaned the pistol,a les Baer for the November monthly shot  that match dec. was canceled looked at it for Jan. Rails were still wet did not clean it. Same for Feb. and March did not clean it . Took it out and shot it ,got the round count up north of 650 with lead and zero malfunctions. I chickened out on shooting another match before cleaning but when i field stripped it the lucas oil was still on the rails and the pistol was not all that dirty. I really think it could have ran longer without a problem. I don't have any connection to Lucas products other than as a consumer but I do think this story is worth mentioning. Dusty Boddams
Title: Re: An interesting story about oil.........
Post by: Lone Dog on April 12, 2017, 03:43:59 PM
Well I have tried them all. My old standby fave is Break Free but lately have become real fond of Seal Lube, slicker'n snot on a glass doorknob. I will get me some a dat Lucas wonder oil fo shore.
Title: Re: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: Boggus Deal on April 12, 2017, 07:55:17 PM
I do have a connection to Lucas and I am here to tell you, it is the best I have found! I have tried most everything out there and while I have only found one or two that are really bad, I've never found one that was really great, until I found Lucas. I have used Lucas products in the automotive industry for 30 years and found it to be really good stuff. When I found the Outdoor line, I was ecstatic! Two overall national championships for me, several state championships for Lady Jane and me, a category world championship for her and numerous other wins, the Lucas products work. Period. They came to me when they were starting their shooting team a couple of years ago and asked me to be their cowboy action representative. I have been very lax lately about promoting the product line because I have been so busy but it works!
Oh, Dusty. Lady Jane and I run our 1911s about 3-4000 rounds before cleaning.
Title: Re: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: DUSTY BODDAMS on April 12, 2017, 08:42:43 PM
BD, 3-4000 rounds is a bunch! How often do you lube? What bullets and powder y'all use?
Title: Re: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: Boggus Deal on April 12, 2017, 09:44:40 PM
The ONLY bullets I will use anymore are Ringer's Bullets. I use his 230 grain bullets and WST powder. Every couple of weeks, I will squirt on some of the Lucas blue.  I hate, hate, hate cleaning guns. They're made to shoot! Not clean.
Title: Re: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: DUSTY BODDAMS on April 13, 2017, 11:29:01 AM
Remarkable! I am amazed at how Lucas oil stays where you put it and does not just go away. Ok so what's the purpose of the blue oil? I heard it was the machine gun oil that they designed. I've used the automotive products for a long time to. The only reason I tried the gun oil was because of how good the vehicle products are.
Title: Re: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: Boggus Deal on April 13, 2017, 12:23:11 PM
The red is very thin and no odor. Great for hunting. The blue is thicker and a bit stickier. It stays in place even better. I use it where I have used grease in the past. Living out here in this very dusty environment, I hate using lots of heavy lube. It attracts dust so badly.
Title: Re: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: Lone Dog on April 14, 2017, 12:10:48 PM
Boggus are the Ringer's bullets plastic coated?
Title: Re: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: Boggus Deal on April 14, 2017, 02:41:43 PM
No. I prefer lead. I've shot his coated bullets and they work. I just prefer lead.
Title: Re: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: Lone Dog on April 14, 2017, 03:02:11 PM
So you go 4000 rounds w/o leading between cleanings? Unreal and remarkable. Do not try this at home with any glockenspiel folks...
Title: Re: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: Happy Jack on April 14, 2017, 03:54:30 PM
I also go thousands of rounds between cleanings of my 1911's.  I have only used WST powder for at least 20 years in 45ACP loads. It became available to the public in the early 1990's and is the first choice of many pro shooters for 45ACP loads. I also use only Penn Bullets. 230gr H&G.  Never a malfunction or an accuracy problem if I do my part. I think the red oil from Brownells is repackaged Lucas. It is really good stuff.
Title: Re: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: J. Frank Norfleet on April 14, 2017, 09:36:14 PM
So you go 4000 rounds w/o leading between cleanings? Unreal and remarkable. Do not try this at home with any glockenspiel folks...
I don't think that Lucas oil has anything to do with leading in your barrel.  I have never had a problem with leading even when I shot commercial bullets.  I too shoot a lot of rounds between cleanings with vary little barrel leading.  Most my shooting is on a home range where I shoot paper.  I quit shooting steel because I found I was calling my shots off of the "ding" and not the sights, but I digress.  I shoot lead mined from my berm and wheel weights from the local tire shop.  Lee molds and generic lube-alox for both rifle and pistol.  All most no leading in either.  A couple patches down the bore an I am good to go.  I shoot WTS at matches and Promo (Red Dot) at home because it is cheap.  I guess this whole process says I go for the cheap.

Now about the gun oil.  Since I shot High Power, I used Kroil to clean and oil my guns.  While I still use Kroil to clean (it is thin), I discovered it doesn't keep the rifle or pistol lubed; or "wet" to use Dusty's term.  The blue Lucas oil keeps working long beyond when other lubes disappear.  When the slide slows to a crawl, a shot of Lucas Blue and you are up and running.  Why bother with the whole cleaning process?
Title: Re: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: Lone Dog on April 15, 2017, 01:33:22 PM
Was not implying that Lucas or any oil would have any effect on barrel leading. My question went to which of Ringer's bulletos Boggus was putting so many rounds thru with no apparent leading problems, plastic coated or plain lead since Ringer sells both types. Pretty remarkable actually. Like Boggus, I despise cleaning but I have never gone over about a thousand rounds w/o running a bore snake thru. That and a spritz of whatever here and there keeps me going w/o field stripping.

There are other treatments, but the liquid I remember as being advertised not just to reduce leading but to actually eliminate it forever was SweetShooter. Any of y'all remember that stuff? I still have a large can of it as welll as all the kit that I bought from the guy at the first Edgewood EOT back in what was it 03? 04? They also had a slew of auto treatment products just like Lucas. Inertia kept me from ever trying the SweetShooter treatment but still have it and may yet crack open the can...

...someday ... then again mebbe not...
Title: Re: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: Garrison Joe on April 15, 2017, 01:50:39 PM
Sure, I remember SweetShooter and all the hooplah with which it was introduced.   Didn't trust it then (to live up to it's hype).   Suppose if it had been ALL THAT, we would still be hearing about it.   Was it OK? Well, about like other bore cleaners.   Was it great? No.  So many things introduced to the shooting industry by folks without much track record fall into that group.  And half the things introduced by those WITH a track record, too.

Lucas Oil - been around for years, just not real heavily advertised.   When I run out of my existing oils, I'll try some.  Until then, I'll apply a little oil and a little grease where they are needed when I clean a gun.   I don't believe in trying to extend periods between cleanings by just applying a lube, though.  I've found a clean and lubed gun to be more reliable than a dirty and lubed gun.

Good luck, GJ
Title: Re: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: Boggus Deal on April 16, 2017, 03:46:39 PM
Lone Dog, I use his 230 gr lead alloy lubed bullet. I don't care for the coated ones of any kind. As for leading, I quit really paying attention to it years ago. With good bullets and barrels and the right velocities, it's a non issue. I had a little leading awhile back and found the bullet supplier(not Ringer) was using some reclaimed lead. Since then, I haven't had any problem. To the point that I really don't pay much attention to the barrels.
Title: Re: How long will your WB pistol run before cleaning
Post by: Grouchy Spike on June 09, 2017, 08:52:54 PM
The ONLY bullets I will use anymore are Ringer's Bullets. I use his 230 grain bullets and WST powder. Every couple of weeks, I will squirt on some of the Lucas blue.  I hate, hate, hate cleaning guns. They're made to shoot! Not clean.

Hey Boggus, I found some of that miracle powder (WST) in San Saba TX, and next week or so I'll work on some reloads.  How about sharing your recipe for 230 gr bullets.

I have an unopened quart of Lucas Synthetic Oil Stabilizer.  Is that anywhere near Lucas Red or Blue in lube performance?

Good shooting!
Title: Re: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: Garrison Joe on June 11, 2017, 07:44:37 AM
Usually 4.4 4.0 grains of WST works to give 170 PF with a 230 grain lead bullet.

And 4.7 grains with a 200 grain slug.  But each 1911 shoots a loading to slightly different velocities, so chrono it.

It's the bullet lube that I have to clean out - WST burns clean enough that I don't find much powder fouling.

Good luck, GJ


CORRECTED the 230 grain load!
Title: Re: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: Garrison Joe on June 11, 2017, 07:48:26 AM
Quote
I have only used WST powder for at least 20 years in 45ACP loads. It became available to the public in the early 1990's
And before it got relabeled by Winchester, with perhaps a very minor tweak of the additives, it was branded as Winchester 452AA.   Shot tons of it in trap loads in the 1970s, as well as in 1911 cast bullet loads.

Good luck, GJ 
Title: Re: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: Grouchy Spike on June 13, 2017, 03:37:55 AM
Thanks, GJ!
Title: Re: How long will your WB pistol run before cleaning
Post by: Boggus Deal on June 13, 2017, 04:11:29 AM


I have an unopened quart of Lucas Synthetic Oil Stabilizer.  Is that anywhere near Lucas Red or Blue in lube performance?

Good shooting!


The Red and Blue are specifically designed for firearm use. I don't know the chemical makeup but I would stick with those two and leave the Stabilizer for automotive use, except in emergency.
Title: Re: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: Grouchy Spike on June 13, 2017, 03:45:07 PM
Will do, thanks BD!
Title: Re: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: Joe Lafives #5481L on June 14, 2017, 06:51:40 PM
I've always liked Brian Enos' Slide Glide - especially in the Arizona heat.
Title: Re: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: Grouchy Spike on June 14, 2017, 07:18:50 PM
OK, Garrison Joe.  I've loaded 100 rounds of 45 acp with 4.4 grains of WST and 230 cast bullets. I will use the Lucas Synthetic Stabilizer until I get some Lucas gun lube.  Actually I've been using it for a week or so and didn't know it, as Judge Hangin Knott has been cleaning 1911s and applied it.  I didn't check for cleanliness before he cleaned them, but he says that compared to Mobil 1 there is less soot from the Trail Boss.

Tomorrow I head for the local gun club with chrono.  Good luck at EOT!
Title: Re: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: Grouchy Spike on June 15, 2017, 07:41:04 PM
I decided to load 4.0 grains of WST behind the 230 so I didn't make it to the range. That happens tomorrow morning and I'll Chrono both loads 4.0 and 4.4 with 230s.
Title: Re: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: Garrison Joe on June 15, 2017, 09:54:46 PM
Well, that 4.4 grain load will be STIFF.  Hodgdon's max load is 4.3.   Ouch. 

Your 4.0 grain load should be plenty.   If your gun is like Hodgdon's test gun , that load will make 775 FPS, or 178 PF.

good luck, GJ   
Title: Re: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: Grouchy Spike on June 16, 2017, 12:25:13 PM
Well, that 4.4 grain load will be STIFF.  Hodgdon's max load is 4.3.   Ouch. 

Your 4.0 grain load should be plenty.   If your gun is like Hodgdon's test gun , that load will make 775 FPS, or 178 PF.

good luck, GJ   

Ha Ha!  GJ that 4.4 grain load WAS hot!  I was thinking that you must have tougher hands that I do, because even my support hand was hurting.  Through the chrono, the MV was 725 fps with 4.4 grains WST. 

I'd cross-checked your recommendation with Lymans Cast Bullet and 48th Manual, saw that the max load for a 225gr cast bullet was 4.7grains WST so 4.4 didn't seem out of line for a 230.

I also loaded 100 rounds with 4.0 grains upon recommendation from Dusty Boddams.

The average MV was 695 fps with 4.0 grains of WST for a PF of 160, except for two of the ten rounds indicated 621 fps, and that is alarming because the PF was 143.  When I checked powder weight while reloading on a 550B, every 10 rounds of so, the weight was spot-on at 4.0 grains.  If the MVs are averaged during a PF check, I'd be OK but if the DQ happens if ANY round is under PF I'd be SOOL.

To hedge a bit in the future, I'll use 4.1 grains and chrono on the next trip to the range.

One difference I noted between WST and Trail Boss where both are running at 695 to 700 fps:  the felt recoil impulse with Trail Boss is less.  And that's been true with TB compared to other powders in other cartridges including 7.5x55 and 45-70.

Title: Re: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: DUSTY BODDAMS on June 16, 2017, 01:30:21 PM
GS, that 621 sounds like an anomaly. My deviation is usually about 10 or so. WST is very consistent.  I don't know if something odd happened but I would repeat the test. Fred and Travis also use this exact load...... We are shooting coated bullets and getting 710 or so for a pf of 163-165
Title: Re: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: Grouchy Spike on June 16, 2017, 01:52:53 PM
Yes indeed, an unusual powder drop twice (that I know of), and I don't know where in the string of reloads that it happened. The reservoir is half-full of powder too.  Before I load again, I'll inspect the powder measure but that 550B has been stroking along without problems since forever.  It loads all of the 45ACP, consistent with Trail Boss.

These are not coated bullets.  I'm saving the coated ones for the important match in November!
Title: Re: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: Last Chance on June 30, 2017, 02:28:40 PM
Cherry Balmz black rifle grease is what i use on all my firearms. I've never experienced any product make a gun perform quite as long as this. My ar15 and sig mpx both haven't been cleaned since applied and have hundreds of rounds through each(mpx close to 900rds). My Wildbunch 1911 had not been cleaned after 14+ (25-30rds stage) stages without slowing down or hiccuping, i cleaned it before heading to EOT just to be cautious, not because it gave me a reason to do so.
Just what i use and like since this post was about gun oil and longevity.
Title: Re: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: Lone Dog on July 02, 2017, 01:31:43 PM
Never heard of Cherry Balmz black rifle grease. Where do you get it Last Chance? I am all about less cleaning..
Title: Re: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: Last Chance on July 03, 2017, 08:38:41 AM
http://www.cherrybalmz.com/_p/prd1/2096216235/product/black-rifle-balm unless you are close to central Oregon ever you can order it here! I recommend the fingernail polish bottle, works very well with slide groves.
Title: Re: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: Garrison Joe on July 03, 2017, 09:25:57 AM
Once again, the 1911 shows that it runs ammo very differently depending upon what gun you're shooting it through.

Lyman handbook shows a 230 grain slug loaded on top of 4.0 WST to make 775 FPS

GS got:
Quote
The average MV was 695 fps with 4.0 grains of WST for a PF of 160

This reinforces what WB shooters have known for a good while -
You MUST check your 1911 loads over a chrono at similar conditions to the match you will be shooting, or else you need to at least try to hit a 165 PF so you will have some wiggle room when you get to a match!

Good luck, GJ
Title: Re: An interesting story about oil..or how long will your WB pistol run before clean
Post by: Lone Dog on July 03, 2017, 09:32:38 AM
Thanks Last Chance, I got a fingernail polish bottle ordered. I appreciate a company that has the one click paypal option.