The SASS Wild Bunch Forum

Wild Bunch Boards => The Wild Bunch Wire => Topic started by: Happy Jack on August 24, 2017, 02:33:24 PM

Title: 7 in the magazine
Post by: Happy Jack on August 24, 2017, 02:33:24 PM
Effective Jan. 01, 2018 ALL WBAS SANCTIONED matches will go to 7 rounds in the magazine.
Title: Re: 7 in the magazine
Post by: Blaze Kinkaid 253 on August 24, 2017, 03:19:06 PM
 ;D  Happy Jack, COOL!   Way to go Jack!
Regards
Blaze
Title: Re: 7 in the magazine
Post by: Grouchy Spike on August 24, 2017, 09:02:06 PM
Awesome!  Thanks much to the Rules Committee and all who initiated the discussion and supported that decision!

Should we share that with the cowboys and cowgirls on the SASS Wire who wanted that change to the WBAS rules?  YES!
Title: Re: 7 in the magazine
Post by: vaquero on August 25, 2017, 04:53:58 AM
It did not make a difference to me, 5 or 7 rounds in the magazines....it is all fun, shooting Wild Bunch.  Congrats, to the people that got the rule changed.  Attica Jack
Title: Re: 7 in the magazine
Post by: Back 40 on August 25, 2017, 06:56:56 AM
THANK YOU TO THE RULES COMMITTEE!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: 7 in the magazine
Post by: Coyote Kincaid on August 25, 2017, 08:15:19 AM
I don't see the point in two extra rounds. Some people are accustomed to hitting the mag release after 5. Are we going to shoot 20 rounds and then have to eject one before we put the gun down? Are we going to do WB specific stages that call for 21 or 28 rounds? I think this decision will have some smaller clubs drop WB altogether. A lot of the smaller clubs use CAS scenarios and then you shoot the rifle targets with your 1911.
Title: Re: 7 in the magazine
Post by: lostvaquero on August 25, 2017, 08:29:14 AM
Well don't really care that much.  Not sure it is going to make a big difference except to a few. 
Now if the committee had said 38 cal 1911 and rifle legal that would have been something
Title: Re: 7 in the magazine
Post by: Grouchy Spike on August 25, 2017, 12:29:45 PM
I think this decision will have some smaller clubs drop WB altogether. A lot of the smaller clubs use CAS scenarios and then you shoot the rifle targets with your 1911.

CK, HJ said that WB sanctioned matches must load 7.  He did not say that local matches must load 7.  I visit a club that designs the match must as you describe above, with WB scenarios using 5 round loads.  I predict that they will continue this practice.

I recognize that it's important to practice with 7-round loads if one is to play in matches (whether or not sanctioned) that use the new rule.  We may have some growing pains for a while, and I'm confident that we will grow through them. 
Title: Re: 7 in the magazine
Post by: John Boy on August 25, 2017, 02:34:39 PM

Quote
Effective Jan. 01, 2018 ALL WBAS SANCTIONED matches will go to 7 rounds in the magazine.
What reasoning brought the Committee to make this decision for Sanctioned Matches and only for Sanctioned Matches?
* More steel for 7 shot scenarios?
* More dump target scenarios?
*Shoot 5 target scenarios and jack 2 rounds to clear?
Thanks for the explanation
 
Title: Re: 7 in the magazine
Post by: Coyote Kincaid on August 25, 2017, 03:29:46 PM

CK, HJ said that WB sanctioned matches must load 7.  He did not say that local matches must load 7.  I visit a club that designs the match must as you describe above, with WB scenarios using 5 round loads.  I predict that they will continue this practice.

I recognize that it's important to practice with 7-round loads if one is to play in matches (whether or not sanctioned) that use the new rule.  We may have some growing pains for a while, and I'm confident that we will grow through them.

I'm riding this train until the wheels fall off. I just don't see two rounds getting people into WB. We have opened up the rules at our local club just to get people interested. Any legal rifle and caliber, A5 shotgun. It's just to get people interested. People will shoot that match but when it's a sanctioned WB match, they aren't interested. Then you have people that are so opposed to WB that nothing will make them happy unless WB was scrapped altogether. You can see that conversation on the second page of the Wire post. Rules are being changed and they affect us regular shooters and we don't get a say in the matter.
Title: Re: 7 in the magazine
Post by: Grouchy Spike on August 25, 2017, 05:45:47 PM

I'm riding this train until the wheels fall off. I just don't see two rounds getting people into WB. We have opened up the rules at our local club just to get people interested. Any legal rifle and caliber, A5 shotgun. It's just to get people interested. People will shoot that match but when it's a sanctioned WB match, they aren't interested. Then you have people that are so opposed to WB that nothing will make them happy unless WB was scrapped altogether. You can see that conversation on the second page of the Wire post. Rules are being changed and they affect us regular shooters and we don't get a say in the matter.

CK, I'll ride with you for a while!  In a thread on the SASS wire of June 14, several responses recommended that WB change the rules so as to load 7 rounds in the 1911 mags.  I don't recall any responses promoting 5-round loads.

Whether this one thread was enough to convince the WB Committee to make the change, I don't know.  But so far, in a thread I started yesterday, there are ZERO who have said that they will now participate in WB since the 7-round magazine load is approved for sanctioned matches.  Several have applauded it but I suspect that they were already WB shooters.  HJ said that clubs have latitude in local matches about this rule.

As I recall, few to none of these objectors had requested allowances for local WB matches.  If they hadn't requested these allowances from their clubs, they likely weren't to play WB anyway. If they did so request and were refused, then they have a leg to stand on with their objections thinking to drive the local clubs to accommodate the request.

If this change doesn't draw any new WB shooters, then I would conclude that the magazine issue was a false objection  :-\, that several people were talking 'through their hat', and I would attach a low credibility value to other stated objections.  Maybe the WB Committee might conclude that too, or they might move on to address the issue of rifle caliber, or shotgun type or gauge, or 1911 barrel length or caliber, etc. 

Seems to me that after a while we might be creating new categories in sanctioned matches - Modern 9mm, Traditional 9mm, Modern Professional Rifle, Modern Cowboy Rifle, etc - that follow a similar path that CAS is on. 

Our membership is aging.  Presently a 75-yr old competes directly with a 25-yr old.  A senior category might assuage that imbalance of 50 years that seniors experience, and that's the only category change that I would support.  Otherwise it's run as best you can, arthritis, carditis, gimps and all!  I will play whatever categories are offered until I can't run anymore. 5 rounds or 7 rounds, don't matter.

 I'm with you - I don't understand the logic that says 'play the game with 7-round loads, don't play with 5-round loads'.  Two rounds would not affect my decision, but some implied that it affected theirs.

It's a bit early to draw a conclusion, so let's see what is said in the next several days.  I'm looking for this 'stampede' of new shooters. ;)
Title: Re: 7 in the magazine
Post by: Coyote Kincaid on August 25, 2017, 06:19:52 PM
I thought they had senior categories already for WB? I know the last state match had men/ladies senior modern and traditional.
Title: Re: 7 in the magazine
Post by: DUSTY BODDAMS on August 25, 2017, 08:39:14 PM
Ck, there are senior categories at state level and above provided there are enough shooters.
Texas state match will have senior categories as of now. Of course that just means your swimming with old experianced Sharks instead of young ones! Dusty
Title: Re: 7 in the magazine
Post by: Church Key on August 25, 2017, 08:41:37 PM
"Effective Jan. 01, 2018 ALL WBAS SANCTIONED matches will go to 7 rounds in the magazine."

Does this mean that magazines must always be loaded to 7?  If so, it is just going to make match planners life more difficult. Stages with odd number of shots will, in my opinion, create possible confusion for the participants, both shooters and scorers.

My local clubs are having a difficult time getting decent WB turnout. None of them use the impossible WB scoring system; lots of bitching about the 6 round 97 loading requirement in a gun designed for 5 (duh!), all have gone to allowing .38 rifles with a PF of 150. No one cares about BAAM rifles in our small pistol bays.

I personally enjoy shooting stoked 97's and shooting 1911's, as what could possibly go wrong with 100+ year old firearm designs?

Anyhow, I believe that going from 5 to 7 in the 1911 is not going to accomplish anything positive for the sport other than prove the validity of unintended consequences.

Church Key
Title: Re: 7 in the magazine
Post by: Griff on August 26, 2017, 06:15:58 AM
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/sass93/Smilies/2thumbsup.jpg)
Title: Re: 7 in the magazine
Post by: J. Frank Norfleet on August 30, 2017, 08:23:04 AM
"Effective Jan. 01, 2018 ALL WBAS SANCTIONED matches will go to 7 rounds in the magazine."

Does this mean that magazines must always be loaded to 7?  If so, it is just going to make match planners life more difficult. Stages with odd number of shots will, in my opinion, create possible confusion for the participants, both shooters and scorers.

My local clubs are having a difficult time getting decent WB turnout. None of them use the impossible WB scoring system; lots of bitching about the 6 round 97 loading requirement in a gun designed for 5 (duh!), all have gone to allowing .38 rifles with a PF of 150. No one cares about BAAM rifles in our small pistol bays.

I personally enjoy shooting stoked 97's and shooting 1911's, as what could possibly go wrong with 100+ year old firearm designs?

Anyhow, I believe that going from 5 to 7 in the 1911 is not going to accomplish anything positive for the sport other than prove the validity of unintended consequences.

Church Key

Church Key,
You do not have to load 7. The current rule reads that you may load up to 5 but no more. So you may load less, the Barney Fife magazine that some carry is an example.
Happy Jack's post says that ALL SANCTIONED matches are 7 round matches. So EoT, WR, Regional and State championships must be 7 round matches. Your local club can do what ever they want. I expect that WB side matches at most SASS club annuals will be 5 round matches. If it is not sanctioned it is up to the match director and ultimately the shooters.
JFN