Author Topic: Question concerning proper procedure  (Read 1883 times)

Goody

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Question concerning proper procedure
« on: May 19, 2014, 10:32:31 AM »
This weekend we had a stage that was laid out this way. Rifle shot from far left window. Move some 25 feet to the right where your SG was staged, engage SG targets. Then from same position engage pistol with 5 rounds, move back left to center window 10 rounds pistol, then left again to door 10 more pistol rounds.

I wanted to draw my pistol as I approached SG, lay it on table as I picked up SG. Engage the 6 SG targets, place the SG back to table and pick up 1911, and carry on. Was told that I couldn’t as that would be staging the pistol, which was not called for in stage instructions. However my take on it is that the pistol started the stage in the holster as specified, was not staged before beep.

What are your thoughts on this?

Happy Jack

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Re: Question concerning proper procedure
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2014, 11:22:40 AM »
In my opinion I would NOT allow you to do that. Pistol stays in the holster until called for in stage scenario.
1911's RULE !!!

Boggus Deal

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Re: Question concerning proper procedure
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2014, 01:35:21 PM »
Although I understand and completely agree with Happy Jack on the ruling, the competitor in me would have to ask why would you want to do that?
You're having to handle it an extra time, therefore doubling your chance of fumbling it or dropping it.
BD

Garrison Joe

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Re: Question concerning proper procedure
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2014, 01:40:57 PM »
Here's most of the rules describing legal 1911 carry, staging and reholstering:

Quote
If charged at the wrong time or location, the pistol may be completely cleared
without penalty. The pistol may NOT be re-holstered. It must be staged safely
and then retrieved when needed.

Safe conditions of pistol during a course of fire are as follows:
• Safe for movement in hand prior to the first charging.
– Slide closed on an empty chamber with no magazine or loaded/empty magazine.
• Safe for movement in hand after the first charging.
– Slide locked open, full magazine, empty magazine, or no magazine.
Safe to leave the shooters hand.
– Slide locked open, empty magazine or no magazine.

• Safe for re-holstering.
– Slide closed and hammer down on an empty chamber with no magazine. Only after RO Inspection at firing line

(Part in bold is what I will refer to.)
You would have allowed pistol to leave your hand, with slide forward AND a loaded magazine in the gun.  (The rules don't distinguish not having charged the pistol as an exception that lets you remove your hand from the pistol). 

Therefore, staging the "uncharged," slide-forward, loaded-mag-inserted pistol on a table once you had started the stage would be grounds for a SDQ.   

Think you were advised correctly.


Pulling the pistol, and shoving it back in the holster immediately, would also be grounds for an SDQ, for violating the last bullet item in the list.


The only easy, non-penalty, way out of the jam, had you drawn pistol at wrong time, would have been to drop mag, lock slide back, lay pistol on table, shoot SG, pick up pistol and load or move as needed. 

Even then, there would be the unanswered question of whether you would be allowed to draw, empty and lock slide, then properly stage an empty pistol, which I can't find that the rules address, so I would have a "no call" for that maneuver.  (Especially so because the first paragraph cited would allow you to fix a "charged at wrong time" problem.  Might as well allow the shooter to fix the "drawn at wrong time but not charged" problem the same way!)

Good luck, GJ

« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 02:01:40 PM by Garrison Joe »
Good luck, GJ

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Wild Bodie Tom

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Re: Question concerning proper procedure
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2014, 02:30:09 PM »
Thats how it works...........
Have had this discussion.........even with the powers that be.
Happened at WinterRange. Stage DQ.

Once drawn, must be cleared by RO before returning to leather.....
Or if you have an "oopsie" and draw before the 1911 is needed, MUST be clear before you set it down........
So, if ya pull it, ya best be shootin it.
A "P" is better than a stage DQ..... OR, clear it, set it down, shoot the "other" gun. THEN pick up the 1911 and reload "from" slide lock and continue on........

Its in the book..... LOL
Underlined in one place.....
Oh well.............
Wild Bodie Tom
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