Author Topic: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch  (Read 12548 times)

Grouchy Spike

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7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« on: June 01, 2014, 05:00:57 AM »
The Texican Rangers ran five stages of 7-round mags, five mags per stage. 35 rounds of 1911, 7 rifle, and usually 6 shotgun per stage..

It was a hoot to shoot!  When the shooter finally made it to the firing line. 

We had 16 shooters, saw about an hour per stage.

In review, the group agreed that this was a bit much.  We were plumb wore out by the end of the match.

We averaged 100 seconds of raw shooting time per shooter per stage, including all of the usual hiccups with the 1911 and the 97.  Another 125 seconds to stage weapons and then clear the firing line. 

Averaged 500 seconds per shooter for the match.  The fastest shooter was 327 seconds.

We usually had three brass pickers working to pick up 48 empty cases after each shooter.

Summary - All Time in Seconds
Average Match Raw Shooting Time per Shooter   502.02
Average Stage Raw Shooting Time per Shooter    100.40
Time for Match                                                 18000.00
Time per Stage                                                  3600.00
Time per Stage per Shooter                                    225.00
 
Run - Hide - Call?  Forget it !  Draw - Aim - Shoot

DUSTY BODDAMS

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Re: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2014, 07:25:32 AM »
 ;D ;D ;D GS, sounds like a blast . I would have liked to be there. so it wore everyone out. nobody complained about not shooting enough that's for sure. really you averaged about 4 minutes a shooter and at the state match and every where else I have been it averages about 3 minutes.  you could always throw in a 3 mag stage in the middle of the match or just lay the rifle down for one stage or 4  shotgun for a stage or two. heck, shooting stages like this you could go for a 4 stage match. originally we used to shoot 6 stages and it was wearing everyone out so we went to five for our monthly matches.  the brass picking seems to take all the time and wear people out the most. I haven't done it yet but since we shoot from a closed in prop house I had thought you could cut a access panel at the bottom of the wall and put a basket under that to catch the brass after it was swept out. that way each piece is not being policed individually and the shooter walks over and gets his brass out of the basket. what about those brass pickers that look like pecan pickers? wonder how those would work for what we are doing? dusty boddams

J. Frank Norfleet

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Re: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2014, 09:19:42 AM »
Wow! That's almost 50 rounds per stage!  No wonder you were worn out.  It wasn't the 7 round mags that got you, it was the high round count per stage.  Sounds like someone has been listening to WBT.

Even though the brass picking is a bear, bet it was fun to get to blast away like that!  I would have liked to have been there.
JFN
"Pilgrim, life is hard - It's a lot harder when you're stupid."  Marion Mitchell Morrison

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein

Lone Dog

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Re: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2014, 01:21:24 PM »
Nope. I am no longer he man or superman. I would not have been able to finish...
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"All gave some, some gave all..."

Ted88160

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Re: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2014, 05:38:17 PM »
Howdy all, first post. Here in Colorado at the Pawnee Station at Great Guns in Nunn, I also run WB stages with 7 rounds per mag. However, our round count per stage varies between 21 to 35. With 5 to 7 rounds rifle and 2 to 6 shotgun. We shoot the 1st Sunday of the month and today had only 5 shooters, graduation and all here, but the 5 of us had a great time, scoring, policing and all. Some stages I write is for the 1911 only, usually 35 to 42 rounds, shooting from 5 different positions. It a hoot to shoot! Our times vary from 40 to 130 seconds per shooter. We start at 9am and are done by noon. So three hours seems like a long time for 5 shooters, there is a lot of laughing and heckling going on after each shooter, and we all have our gun problems as well. We may be small but we're trying to get bigger each shoot. We'll have a 4 stage mini match over the 4th of July at our State Championship match all are welcome to come to Colorado and have a great WB & Cowboy shoot. Thanks all. Hope to see some of you at EOT.
TriggerHappy Ted (88160)

Nawlins Kid

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Re: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2014, 05:19:34 AM »
The brass pickers work great on most surfaces except where there is small gravel and stones. They pick up the brass plus everything else that is small enough that can fit thru the basket wires.

Nawlins

Garand

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Re: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2014, 09:21:19 AM »
It is starting to sound like Wild Bunch has become "IPSC in costume". Just my $0.02 worth.
Canadian Army 1973-2002 Infantry/Ammo Tech/EOD. 
Now as a retired Explosives Technician
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RO 1 & RO II, Wild Bunch RO

Lone Dog

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Re: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2014, 02:23:26 PM »
Well Garand one of the most popular catch phrases of WBAS is "it's not CAS with a 1911".

Indeed it is not and one more very good reason to cut the 5 round tie to CAS and go with 7 round mags like St. JMB intended.

This outcry is not going to die down or go away and sooner or later the 5 round restriction will go the way of the dodo.

In the future we will look back and wonder how and why it ever was instituted to start with.
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VICIOUS

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Re: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2014, 07:01:21 PM »
WE should go 6 in a mag, 5 in a shotgun and 9 in a rifle, just to be different.

J. Frank Norfleet

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Re: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2014, 09:12:05 PM »
 :)
WE should go 6 in a mag, 5 in a shotgun and 9 in a rifle, just to be different.
"Pilgrim, life is hard - It's a lot harder when you're stupid."  Marion Mitchell Morrison

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein

evilroy

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Re: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2014, 07:47:14 PM »
Just for information we have interviewed clubs constantly from the start and feedback from those actually shooting the matches is 5 rounds works well and most like it.  Most would not quit if it changed but again most had no problem with shooting 5. It is a good balance between mag changes and number of rounds fired.  It also gives one more opportunity to move as we cannot move with a slide forward.  It also needs to stay a 3 gun match and the tendency with more in the mag is to make the rifle less of a factor.  The intend is not to make it not like SASS but a separate sport.  We are not trying to be like IPSC or not like SASS.  It is really a large caliber 3 gun match which can be shot on a 30 yard range with lead bullets with no crawling around on the ground which makes it easier for all to compete on an equal basis.  If it were just a 1911 match you could just shoot IPSC or IDPA with lead bullets. All sports have their own rules and some are not liked.  Indeed, the most difficult thing about changing shooting sports is getting enough experience with new rules and procedures.  Pistol shooting is pistol shooting.

evilroy

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Re: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2014, 08:49:18 PM »
As an aside every type match I know of does not shoot 7 rounds in a mag. with 1911s.   Every single discipline in which I have shot my 1911 in you could use 8 round mags.  Many approve 20 plus in a mag.  I don't think that keeps anyone from shooting IPSC or IDPA.

Another issue that comes up once in awhile is the "we need to shoot the from cocked and locked" like they were intended to be.  When I was a machine gunner in the service I carried one.  They were never holstered cocked and locked.  Never. I believe the original gun by Browning did not even have a frame mounted safety.  I think it was required by the military.  Not that it matters as chamber empty is the rule for the game but it is correct for the period if not for all general issue by the military.  I know Special Ops guys do carry them cocked and locked but general line troops did not.  If you can imagine a room or helicopter full of troops racking a round in the chamber and engaging the safety and re-holstering the 1911.......

J. Frank Norfleet

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Re: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2014, 06:28:38 AM »
Evil Roy,
Folks see what they want to see.  The percentages below have not changed since the poll was started.  When you asked the question at the Texas State match in Cleburne, from where I was standing it looked like the response you got fit the poll.

http://sassnet.com/wildbunch/forum/index.php?topic=1619.0

What ever . . .
JFN
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 06:31:12 AM by J. Frank Norfleet »
"Pilgrim, life is hard - It's a lot harder when you're stupid."  Marion Mitchell Morrison

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein

DUSTY BODDAMS

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Re: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2014, 08:13:52 AM »
 ;D jfrank, from what I remember about the state match I walked away thinking not many really cared one way or the other. I remember thinking that I thought it was strange,that people would be more polarized than what they were. As a side note we had a small group for WB after the state match and decided we would shoot one seven round stage. Disaster! I'm sure if it was all stages and practice was done with 7 it would work just fine but mags were ejected at 5 and everything was thrown off. I'm still in the don't care camp. If we went to 7 tomorrow I will practice,get in the new groove and be ready to compete. One more thing though,I think that everyone that thinks they would like 7 to go shoot a match with 7 and then decide what they want. Dusty Boddams

J. Frank Norfleet

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Re: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2014, 09:04:42 AM »
Dusty,
You are probably correct, from the back it looked different to me.  Guess I saw what I wanted.

I think the current shooters will shoot no matter what the round count.   

Last Saturday saw an old friend.  He is an active IDPA shooter from the Houston area.  Since I was returning from a match he wanted to see my Wild Bunch guns.  A rabid 1911 shooter, he was obviously interested in this type of 3 gun.  His first remark was he didn't want to dress up in a costume.  When I told him what I was wearing was what I shot in he replied that was what he wore every day.  His interest rapidly vanished when discussing the rules I mentioned the mags were loaded with 5 rounds.

Lets face it.  WBAS is a CAS side match where cowboy shooters get to shoot their 1911.  As SASS ages where do we get new shooters?  In New Mexico we aren't and if the numbers at this year's state match are an indicator, Texas isn't either.
JFN
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 09:07:21 AM by J. Frank Norfleet »
"Pilgrim, life is hard - It's a lot harder when you're stupid."  Marion Mitchell Morrison

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein