Author Topic: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch  (Read 12559 times)

evilroy

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Re: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2014, 09:37:46 AM »
We want it to grow past the side match stage it is in but I don't think 7 rounds matters one way or the other. I could care less myself.  I just cannot imagine why someone would or would not shoot a match based on mag capacity.  It makes no difference in any other sport.  I don't like 28 round mags in a 1911 but it never entered my mind to not shoot a match because of that. Eight round mags are not original.  Neither are 9 round allowed by some for 9mm.  I think if folks are interested in shooting they will shoot.  I can understand not wanting to dress up a like a B Western star as some think we have to do but I fully respect those that do.  Frankly I think some of the rules in both IDPA and IPSC are silly to me but I still shoot the matches when I can because I like to shoot them.  I refuse to wear shorts so they can refuse to wear fuzzy chaps. No big deal.

DUSTY BODDAMS

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Re: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2014, 09:38:49 AM »
 Jfrank, yes,gosh sass is gray but I've been a sass member since 1991 and it's always been gray. We have never been young as a group. Why don't you tell your old friend that the drinks are on you! In other words take him and furnish the gear and when he sees how we do things let's see what he thinks of it then. I can see how an idpa shooter might glaze over because he would be shooting ESP class with his 1911 and holding 9 rounds at start and then tactical reload all the way through the stage because that's his only gun. They never shoot anything else at all the idpa matches I've been to. Funny thing is I quit shooting those matches because I got bored shooting only one gun. I keep on thinking we are the greatest gun game in search of an audience. I also keep on thinking if we can get the word out there in front of shooters that we will pick up more competitors as time goes by. Of course it sounds like a scape goat because we have all been shooting WB all this time but maybe with the component market loosening up we will get more shooters. Could not guess why we didn't have more shooters at the Texas state,heck of a fun match with all the trimmings. Weird thing com'n atcha the regional match over in English Texas ( just the other side of the end of the earth for you) the WB match had I think around 80-100 shooters. So I guess sass shooters will shoot WB in conjunction but not stand alone?

DUSTY BODDAMS

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Re: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2014, 09:43:13 AM »
We want it to grow past the side match stage it is in but I don't think 7 rounds matters one way or the other. I could care less myself.  I just cannot imagine why someone would or would not shoot a match based on mag capacity.  It makes no difference in any other sport.  I don't like 28 round mags in a 1911 but it never entered my mind to not shoot a match because of that. Eight round mags are not original.  Neither are 9 round allowed by some for 9mm.  I think if folks are interested in shooting they will shoot.  I can understand not wanting to dress up a like a B Western star as some think we have to do but I fully respect those that do.  Frankly I think some of the rules in both IDPA and IPSC are silly to me but I still shoot the matches when I can because I like to shoot them.  I refuse to wear shorts so they can refuse to wear fuzzy chaps. No big deal.


ER, main thing is don't wear fuzzy chaps AND shorts at the same time!;D ;D ;D!

evilroy

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Re: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2014, 10:09:02 AM »
Like I said I don't care either way but the bottom line is how many more shooters have you clubs gotten when you started shooting WB with 7 rounds.  Sounds like you attendance doubled.  Did it?  The majority of clubs and people we talked to either don't care or are perfectly happy with 5 rounds.  If clubs started calling saying that the instant they upped the mag count attendance soared I would be on board in a heartbeat. The clubs I talked to said it made no difference.  Again it makes no difference in any other sport as well.  If your only reason for not shooting is it is too much like CAS you are not shooting the same matches as me.

evilroy

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Re: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2014, 11:39:03 AM »
To the heart of the matter on getting more shooters from other sports.  I think the costume thing is the limiting factor for many.  I do not think folks realize what you can wear and be legal in WB for CAS as well. Basic farm/ranch wear usually works. Like I said if IDPA  required shorts that would be a stop and think moment for me.   The other thing is people have to realize these are very challenging matches using large bore guns with power factors.  Clean matches are very rare. The mag thing may or may not ever change but the  matches are fun whether 5, 6 ,7 ,8 or 10 rounds are used in the 1911. The rifle and shotgun need to stay important or it will be just another 1911 match. Quit trying to find reasons not to shoot and get out and go bang. Most who shoot as much as they can, get the gear and go shoot.  They do not try to change the rules before they start to fit their every desire. Go have some fun.

Wild Bodie Tom

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Re: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2014, 12:20:06 PM »
Gene, sometimes you state the most amazing things.... LOL

Like "Just Shoot" has been stuck in my brain for over 2 years.

This string however is this one.

Quit looking for an excuse.

Still is though. "JUST SHOOT" LOL

Just sayin...........
Wild Bodie Tom
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Wild Bunch, and Wild Wimens
"Its not that I think you are dumb, Its just that so much of what you say you know is not true"

Joe Lafives #5481L

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Re: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2014, 08:55:59 PM »
I'll shoot it whether it has 5 or 7 BUT I don't prefer not to practice something that would hurt me in a real gunfight.  7 rounds and tac reloads would suit that criteria.   
That may or may not be good or bad

Branchwater Jack - 88854

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Re: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2014, 10:37:14 AM »
Lafives,

I shoot cowboy and Wild Bunch with the expectation that it is a game.  I do things in each of them that I would never do in a real gunfight.

I practice and do stuff in Cowboy and Wild Bunch.

I also practice and do stuff for my personal defense.

If you are going to WB or SASS matches to work on your "real gunfight" skills, the NRA and other private groups offer some great classes on the subject that you may find help broaden your knowledge base.


Sassy Teton Lady

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Re: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2014, 12:14:09 PM »
Finally going to give my 2 cents.  And we all know what that is worth.......

I think I would prefer 7 rounds, but in all reality it doesn't matter. I get to shot my 1911.  I will say the 5 in a mag has been a challenge shooting IDPA, but that is my challenge.  Remembering that I don't have to hit the slide release because I have one in the chamber, the magazines seat harder with 7 or 8 rounds in them and I still use no base pads or mag wells in IDPA.  But these are my decisions.

We recently participated in a 2 day defensive pistol class.  Actually a great class.  There was an IDPA shooter and match director in the class and we got to rag on each other during the class.  First he hit me with the dress.  I countered that the dress shouldn't be a factor as jeans and a long sleeve shirt were fine along with boots.  But I countered again that in IDPA we have to wear a cover garment or as he and many wear a "Shoot me first vest" so that shut him up.  Then came the loading of 5 in the magazine.  I looked at him and asked; How many rounds does that XDM hold?  He replied 17 and I followed up with "What is the max can you load in IDPA?  10 rounds.  I looked at him and didn't have to say a word. The light went on ... wow and you could see him process that we have restrictions as well. 

While 5 rounds is what it is, most shooting sports have rules and we all have to play within those rules.  I really think the need to purchase a rifle and shotgun and use lead bullets are in my opinion the largest drawback not the 5 rounds limits in the magazine.  Not everyone reloads and the majority of shooters in other sports shoot 9 mm or 40. They will use whatever excuse is convenient at the time.





marshal stone

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Re: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2014, 01:54:56 PM »

  They will use whatever excuse is convenient at the time.


This is true in many aspects in SASS. Weather it be 5 in the magazine to when and where the Convention is or that its to far to travel to Winter Range.

We all set priorities (sp) If we really want to play the game, go to Convention or Winter Range we will make it happen.
No excuses here.

Marshal Stone

Joe Lafives #5481L

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Re: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2014, 04:25:57 PM »
Lafives,

I shoot cowboy and Wild Bunch with the expectation that it is a game.  I do things in each of them that I would never do in a real gunfight.

I practice and do stuff in Cowboy and Wild Bunch.

I also practice and do stuff for my personal defense.

If you are going to WB or SASS matches to work on your "real gunfight" skills, the NRA and other private groups offer some great classes on the subject that you may find help broaden your knowledge base.

You seem to think you will be able to choose which skill set will take over when SHTF.  What you practice the most is the default you will arrive at. 
That may or may not be good or bad

evilroy

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Re: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2014, 08:47:58 AM »
Lots of great discussion here.  Many good points.
Here are some things to think about.  There is not one shooting sport I know of which requires 7 rounds in a 1911.  We could be the first but to suggest that 5 rounds is hurting the sport is wrong in my view.  Does it hurt your chance of survival in a real gun fight that we don't carry 7 rounds in the magazine and require the slide to be racked?  I carry a Glock 19 with 16 rounds for my concealed carry gun.  Cowboy action does not seem to hurt my Glock shooting.  I have never tried to cock the hammer on my Glock or quit shooting after 5 rounds.  I shoot my favorite gun the most these days.  My Colt 1911.  I still carry the Glock because it is the best carry gun in my opinion.  I have never tried to rack the slide as I draw it. Again have never quit shooting after 5 rounds. Would I be unable to defend myself with my Glock because I shoot a 1911 with 5 rounds in it.  Hardly.  Do you think a good IPSC or IDPA shooter who shoots a 1911 style pistol with 28 rounds and a 1 1/2 pound trigger would somehow be at a disadvantage defending themselves with a Glock with a 5 1/2 trigger and 15 rounds?  Does shooting 5 rounds in WB hurt you is a defensive situation? Competition is just a game. Non of it teaches self defense.  They all have their rules most of which has nothing to do with protecting yourself.  What does help is actually shooting under pressure. Lots of trigger time with any firearm is good.  I tell my students that they will learn more in one match of any kind than they will shooting targets for months.  Shooting under pressure, concentrating on sight alignment, getting use to noise and recoil and thinking under stress are all good things about competing. Like the lady said go to a self defense class to learn tactics to protect yourself.  Again I don't care how many rounds we load in the mag.  It just seems considering we have to set up and move steel, move with an open gun and other considerations works well with 5.  I think the biggest thing is many think Cowboy Action is just silly because of the dress up and many in the shooting world think none of us know how to shoot.  I do think WB is the easiest shooting sport to transition to because we have very simple rules, there is no loading of the shotgun on the clock and the gear is pretty simple.

Hondo Jackson

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Re: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2014, 05:12:12 PM »
WB is a sport and all sports have rules.  In my experience, 5 in the mag is not hurting WB.  I shoot IDPA as well as WB and CAS.  The dress is what my fellow IDPA shooters tell me is what they do not like about SASS.  In IDPA as Sassy stated, you only load ten and that is not a problem with IDPA.  95% of our WB shooters in Greenville come from CAS.  5 rounds in a pistol is what they are use to.  It would be difficult for most of them to transition to WB if it were anything else.  I believe it is best to leave the rules as they are, shoot the sport and just have fun!
Just my 2 cents!
Hondo

Boggus Deal

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Re: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2014, 06:58:07 PM »
5 rounds, 7 rounds, costuming. it doesn't really matter. As Evil Roy said, people who make excuses to not shoot are going to make excuses no matter. Our problem is exposure. The reason we don't draw new shooters is no one knows we are here. I shoot a lot of other sports and as soon as I mention shooting CAS or Wild Bunch, the first question I get asked is "How does blanks bust those balloons?" They know nothing about CAS or Wild Bunch. All they have ever seen is Mounted Shooting. Whether is been on tv, in the gun magazines or wherever, they haven't seen our sports. Just Mounted. Shooting.
I can't wait to get my hands on Dusty Boddam's article in WSJ. I would like to see if I could get several copies of the article just to spread around at stores, shoots and anywhere else I can.

evilroy

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Re: 7 Round Mags in Wild Bunch
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2014, 09:19:16 AM »
Most of the time when I talk to people they ask questions about fast draw even after I explain to them what we do. When I talk to them weeks later they say "that's that fast draw guy".  Part of the reason is SASS has down played the competition so much that other shooting sports do not consider us a shooting sport. This is carrying over to WB which is a very serious shooting sport just like CAS is.  Folks who want to compete don't think of either one as shooting competition.  I started shooting SASS in Durango because of the competition and I was fortunate to have 2 very competitive shooters in the club.  We have to appeal to shooters who want to compete.  I think we have to stress that fact that the dress factor here is minimal and still make it clear to those who are into the history part that they are welcome and encouraged to dress in period clothing if they desire to do so.  We are establishing a Senior category, we have allowed model 12 shotguns and have changed a few rules to make the game more palpable to some.  The matches held in conjunction with CAS matches are very popular because SASS members know what we do.  We need to push the matches within SASS with the goal of expanding it to the shooting masses outside of SASS.  As far as the 5 round rule changing it will only help separate it some from SASS and maybe tick off some who do like shooting 5.  Which is best?