Author Topic: Why aren't Wild Bunchers fully matriculated into SASS?  (Read 6733 times)

PapaGrande

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Why aren't Wild Bunchers fully matriculated into SASS?
« on: September 12, 2014, 01:44:28 PM »
Why doesn't SASS allow Wild Bunchers to compete in "standard" SASS matches as just another category or two?  Too often it seems like the Wild Bunch is treated as a "side match."

Is there a technical reason?  Would a .45ACP round damage metal targets at the short distances used in SASS?  If it is, could it be handled by setting a maximum power factor?

Or is SASS concerned (as they seem to be when it comes to the idea adult rimfire) that too many people would matriculate from "standard" SASS to WB?  Thanks.

Garrison Joe

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Re: Why aren't Wild Bunchers fully matriculated into SASS?
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2014, 02:37:19 PM »
Because WB is not just SASS with a different handgun.

Because WB ticks off some cowboy shooters when they see it shot, hear about it being shot, or have it shot on their own posse.

Because WB uses different rules and that might make some shooters' brains explode.

Because there would be too much brass to have to shag.

Because folks would forget to check the model 12.

Because a WB shooter might whoop up on them and take overall.

Because the targets would be too close and too large for a WB shooter.

Because there would not be enough targets to be shot.

Because no one would pick up and return empty magazines.

Because someone might pick up a fired gun other than the shooter.


Pick any number of your choices from the reasons above and you might have a start.   ;D

Besides, one meaning of matriculation is enrollment and it would not be much like going back to school to shoot WB in a Cowboy match.

 :) ;) :D ;D :o


Really, though, WB is significantly different and would be real limited at a Cowboy shoot.   I like the additional venue to shoot at, with WB being separate, being tougher stages, requiring more accuracy and more ability to handle recoil.


Good luck, GJ
« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 04:52:44 PM by Garrison Joe »
Good luck, GJ

Ride hard, shoot straight and speak the truth.    Col. J Cooper
Why else would you want to be here?

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Boggus Deal

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Re: Why aren't Wild Bunchers fully matriculated into SASS?
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2014, 03:11:31 PM »
And one big one that makes a huge difference is that most ROs in a cowboy match aren't familiar with the rules of clearing the 1911.

Boggus Deal

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Re: Why aren't Wild Bunchers fully matriculated into SASS?
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2014, 04:19:30 PM »
Also, a lot of cowboy stages aren't written with a safe place to stage a 1911 when the shooter is finished with it or it becomes unusable in a stage.

Happy Jack

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Re: Why aren't Wild Bunchers fully matriculated into SASS?
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2014, 04:30:31 PM »
In the early days of Wild Bunch shooting some clubs tried having a "Wild Bunch posse" running in conjunction with the CAS match. It was NOT successful. The WBAS shooters didn't like it and the CAS shooters didn't like it. The two sports are too different. Many reasons for the failure to run the two sports simultaneously have already been listed.
1911's RULE !!!

VICIOUS

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Re: Why aren't Wild Bunchers fully matriculated into SASS?
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2014, 05:34:36 PM »
HI Gang. How about CAS on saturday and move the fireing line back 10 yards and shooot WB on sunday.  ;D

Roy Cassidy

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Re: Why aren't Wild Bunchers fully matriculated into SASS?
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2014, 06:06:40 PM »
At Circle K Regulators we set up for CAS on Saturday morning, tweak 5 of the 6 stages and shoot Wild Bunch rearrange the stages back and shoot 6 stages of CAS on Sunday.

PapaGrande

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Re: Why aren't Wild Bunchers fully matriculated into SASS?
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2014, 01:16:31 AM »
Because WB is not just SASS with a different handgun.

Because WB ticks off some cowboy shooters when they see it shot, hear about it being shot, or have it shot on their own posse.

Because WB uses different rules and that might make some shooters' brains explode.

Because there would be too much brass to have to shag.

Because folks would forget to check the model 12.

Because a WB shooter might whoop up on them and take overall.

Because the targets would be too close and too large for a WB shooter.

Because there would not be enough targets to be shot.

Because no one would pick up and return empty magazines.

Because someone might pick up a fired gun other than the shooter.


Pick any number of your choices from the reasons above and you might have a start.   ;D

Besides, one meaning of matriculation is enrollment and it would not be much like going back to school to shoot WB in a Cowboy match.

 :) ;) :D ;D :o


Really, though, WB is significantly different and would be real limited at a Cowboy shoot.   I like the additional venue to shoot at, with WB being separate, being tougher stages, requiring more accuracy and more ability to handle recoil.


Good luck, GJ

Thanks for the comments.  They made me laugh -- and some made me shake my head knowingly.  I don't think that there shouldn't be a separate WB group and all, but it would be nice if a solo WBer could shoot a SASS match as a WBer, simply because around here, SASS matches are common and WB matches are few and far between.

I realize the targeting wouldn't be all that challenging but it would still be fun.

PapaGrande

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Re: Why aren't Wild Bunchers fully matriculated into SASS?
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2014, 01:19:14 AM »
And one big one that makes a huge difference is that most ROs in a cowboy match aren't familiar with the rules of clearing the 1911.

I would hope that any individual who is capable of ROing a SASS match should very easily be able to learn how to clear a M1911.  In all actuality I would hope they would already have enough general gun knowledge...

PapaGrande

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Re: Why aren't Wild Bunchers fully matriculated into SASS?
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2014, 01:20:10 AM »
Also, a lot of cowboy stages aren't written with a safe place to stage a 1911 when the shooter is finished with it or it becomes unusable in a stage.

Maybe in their holsters or where SASSers stage their revolvers?

PapaGrande

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Re: Why aren't Wild Bunchers fully matriculated into SASS?
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2014, 01:21:00 AM »
In the early days of Wild Bunch shooting some clubs tried having a "Wild Bunch posse" running in conjunction with the CAS match. It was NOT successful. The WBAS shooters didn't like it and the CAS shooters didn't like it. The two sports are too different. Many reasons for the failure to run the two sports simultaneously have already been listed.

Why didn't they like it?  Too slow?  Not challenging enough?

VICIOUS

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Re: Why aren't Wild Bunchers fully matriculated into SASS?
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2014, 08:22:15 AM »
HI Gang; IF a club did wish to have a WB group but only small numbers maybe the WB could or should form there own posse, so as not to detract or offend the cowboys and mainly for safety reasons.
 As to the vemon well it aint what it used to be for type of stages or kindness of people. I now lock my car at matchs. 25 years back I never thought about it.

DUSTY BODDAMS

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Re: Why aren't Wild Bunchers fully matriculated into SASS?
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2014, 06:05:36 PM »
Pg, the bottom line is if your shooting a cowboy match with a 1911 then you are not shooting a wild bunch match but a cowboy match with a 1911. Could be great fun and you would be playing with the 45 and getting trigger time which are all great things. I'm embarrassed at some of the responses posted on the wire , civility is dead to some. Of course it's a lot easier to be rude when nothing is said face to face or on a phone anymore. It's best to find like minded individuals and at the very least have your own WB posse if you were going to have WB at a cowboy match. Funny thing is our monthly WB match is shot on the same day as our cowboy match both matches are stand alone we all get done about the same time and have lunch then awards and then anyone interested whether a cowboy or a WB shooter goes back down to the range and participates in a BAMM competition. We all have fun and there is not a us vs them attitude.   Dusty Boddams

August West

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Re: Why aren't Wild Bunchers fully matriculated into SASS?
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2014, 02:55:27 PM »
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

-Herbert Spencer

Boggus Deal

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Re: Why aren't Wild Bunchers fully matriculated into SASS?
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2014, 09:25:14 AM »


Maybe in their holsters or where SASSers stage their revolvers?
[/quote]



PapaGrande, at the end of shooting a pistol string with the 1911 in Wild Bunch, it is not reholstered until it is cleared by the RO at the end of the stage. A lot of cowboy stages don't have a place to restage the pistol. In Cowboy, all revolvers go back to leather, unless otherwise specifically specified in the stage description.
I don't want you to feel beat up over here like you do on the SASS wire as we want to be friendly and grow the sport of WBAS so please take our answers here not as being hateful but sometimes they may sound like that due to not being able to get the tone of the statement by reading it.
Also, to answer your other post about SASS ROs should be able to learn how to handle WBAS guns, sure, they should be able to. However, in the middle of a match is not the time to have to learn that. The 1911 and the Model 12 range operations are so different than an open an empty double barrelled shotgun or a reholstered single action revolver, that it would be difficult and quite possibly dangerous to try and figure it out in the middle of a stage.
By the way, where are you located? Knowing that info, maybe we could help point you in the direction of some close by people and matches that would be helpful to you.
Best,
BD