Author Topic: Model 12  (Read 4129 times)

kid ziggy

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Model 12
« on: September 15, 2014, 10:07:14 PM »

Seeing more Model 12s being used.  So ... these are 97s with an internal hammer?  Those of you who prefer the Model 12 to the 97 - why so?

Garrison Joe

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Re: Model 12
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2014, 11:30:04 PM »
Mod 12s are considerably improved in the internals.   Better lockup, better shell control while feeding, better ejection.  Weaker firing pin, more complex takedown if completely tearing it apart.    The Mod 12 is normally much smoother.

I have shot both.   Have actually gone back to the 97, and Chinese guns at that, because I can run them faster without the occasional hangup.   Once you have learnt to run a 97 "like you stole it," it's hard to go back to the smooth finesse that a Model 12 seems to want.

A Model 12 is no more a hammerless 97 than a 707 was a propless DC3.    Both were great airplanes and both are great shotguns!

Good luck, GJ
Good luck, GJ

Ride hard, shoot straight and speak the truth.    Col. J Cooper
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John Boy

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Re: Model 12
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2014, 09:26:36 AM »
 
Quote
Those of you who prefer the Model 12 to the 97 - why so?
Ziggy, for no other reason than I never wanted to own a '97 because I don't like them - growing up shooting pump shotguns from the age of 10.  I don't like Marlins either and have never owned one
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John Boy

Boggus Deal

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Re: Model 12
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2014, 09:47:23 AM »
For me, shooting a model 12 over a 97 was several things. First, I could pick them up a lot cheaper than a 97. Second, they were much smoother and less worn out than the 97s I was finding. Third, they seemed to more reliable and ran faster.
To each their own!
BD

DUSTY BODDAMS

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Re: Model 12
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2014, 11:11:25 AM »
Plus one for what bogus said and I also think the model 12 is exactly what WB needs lots built and lots still available. Just think how much you'll save in gas not hauling 3 to 5 at a time ;D " the finest pump ever built"! Dusty Boddams

John Boy

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Re: Model 12
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2014, 12:59:36 PM »
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" the finest pump ever built"
Dusty when the Winchester Pederson Model 17 patent expired ... Ithaca Gun Works cloned an improved Model 12 - the Ithaca 37.  My good friend - IMO that pump gun is the finest action and smoothest ever built.

Following the First World War, the Ithaca Gun Company was searching for a pump-action shotgun to produce, primarily to compete with the ubiquitous Winchester Model 1912. They settled on waiting for Remington Model 17 patents to expire. After gearing for production of the Ithaca Model 33, they discovered a Pedersen patent that would not expire until 1937; along with the introduction date, they changed the model designation from 33 to 37.

After WW-II, Ithaca resumed production of the Model 37. Made in many different models, the Ithaca 37 has the longest production run for a pump-action shotgun in history, surpassing that of the Winchester Model 12 that had originally inspired Ithaca to produce pump-action shotguns.
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John Boy

DUSTY BODDAMS

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Re: Model 12
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2014, 06:20:46 PM »
JB ,  ;D great shotgun no question there. I have one you can tell who the inventor was by the way it handles. Better than a model 12? Well that's why you have dodge, Chevy and ford. A featherweight model 37 is a pleasure to carry. A model 12  is a pleasure to shoot!

Lone Dog

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Re: Model 12
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2014, 02:01:46 PM »
I have 4 Model 12s and intend to keep acquiring them even tho I despise all the balky things equally.

One was slicked by a famous smith and it is no better than the other 3. I find them contrary to say the least. Oh I will continue to play with them at local matches...

But when I go to the line at a big match one of my dozen or so original or half dozen Norinco 97s will be accompanying me.

Besides with the 97 you don't have to worry about showing the state of the trigger to the TO or sticking a bar towel or bandana in the trigger guard to remind yourowndangself to do so.

In my eyes the 97 is the greatest pump of all time. The M12 can never be any more than a distant second place...
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"All gave some, some gave all..."

DUSTY BODDAMS

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Re: Model 12
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2014, 03:38:15 PM »
 ;D ;D  ;D LD, you scared me for a minute , I thought you said you stuck a banana in it!  Well now having 18 model 97s should be enough. That should equal out to 6 going to the big match. (Assuming  a 12 stage match) 5 at the gunsmith getting them worked on. 4 for parts to keep the others running. 2 safe queens and 1 to prop the hood open on your pickup while you're work'n on it!  Dusty

Garrison Joe

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Re: Model 12
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2014, 06:35:12 PM »
Couple of tomato stakes, too, out of 02 series Norincos.   ;D

Just glad that Coyote Cap taught them how to improve their version through the years.

Good luck, GJ

Ride hard, shoot straight and speak the truth.    Col. J Cooper
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Nawlins Kid

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Re: Model 12
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2014, 05:09:49 AM »
LPL's 97 and the model 12 have been both slicked up and both run very good.  My SASS category is Classic Cowboy so shooting them Thar pumpers is not natural to me. I have tendency to jack out a live round  occasionally  from either gun . The hard part is I have to try to  remember when I do jack one out not to grab two rounds and try to cock the hammers.   ::)

Nawlins

DUSTY BODDAMS

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Re: Model 12
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2014, 09:42:59 AM »
 ;D NK, I bet the tough parts break'n it open! ;D

John Boy

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Re: Model 12
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2014, 11:43:02 AM »
Quote
I have tendency to jack out a live round  occasionally  from either gun .
Nawlins - pumps will run like a Swiss watch if:
* Full pump rear
* Full pump forward
And don't baby the slide when your pulling & pushing. 
Regards
John Boy

PapaGrande

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Re: Model 12
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2014, 09:31:12 PM »

Seeing more Model 12s being used.  So ... these are 97s with an internal hammer?  Those of you who prefer the Model 12 to the 97 - why so?

Smoother, more reliable, easier and less expensive to maintain and less expensive to purchase.  Next to the venerable 870, the M1912 may be the best pump shotgun ever.

Lone Dog

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Re: Model 12
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2014, 10:21:58 PM »
;D ;D  ;D LD, you scared me for a minute , I thought you said you stuck a banana in it!  Well now having 18 model 97s should be enough. That should equal out to 6 going to the big match. (Assuming  a 12 stage match) 5 at the gunsmith getting them worked on. 4 for parts to keep the others running. 2 safe queens and 1 to prop the hood open on your pickup while you're work'n on it!  Dusty

Har! Well only about 3 or 4 mebbe 5 of the originals are running at this time. One that is not is a 16 gauge take down that someone welded into a solid that is ineligible to play WB anyway. After my first 3 years in CAS 1996 to 99 I switched to the 97 and began accumulating the fool things. Shot the trombones for a decade or so and went back to the double. Then WBAS came along and the ole junkers got to come back out to play. 4 years ago at the first TX state WB champeenship my prize chinee trench gun locked up solid on stage one. 6 misses and then the 45C 73 did the same on stage two for oh about 7 or 8 more misses cementing my hold on last place. One shooter didn't show Sunday boosting me in to next to last. Sent the trench to Squibber who declared it a parts gun only. Down to one chink 97 and one mebbe two 93/97s that might run. I will never buy another Chinese pump. The originals have contributed mightily to my gunsmith's retirement fund and must needs continue to do so forever. Just the nature of the beast and the way it is out west...
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