Author Topic: Penalty for a round (or spent case) left in long gun (not in chamber)  (Read 4271 times)

kid ziggy

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I can't find the subject item in the online rule books.  Thinking no-call in WB until firearm leaves shooters hand at unloading table?

J. Frank Norfleet

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Re: Penalty for a round (or spent case) left in long gun (not in chamber)
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2014, 06:44:07 AM »
Read the penally overview section of the shooter's handbook.
JFN
"Pilgrim, life is hard - It's a lot harder when you're stupid."  Marion Mitchell Morrison

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein

Branchwater Jack - 88854

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Re: Penalty for a round (or spent case) left in long gun (not in chamber)
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2014, 08:27:31 AM »
Leaving live rounds in magazine or carrier of the long gun in which it was loaded = MSV

Spent case = No Call

kid ziggy

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Re: Penalty for a round (or spent case) left in long gun (not in chamber)
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2014, 09:32:39 PM »
Thanks Jack, is that by default since the manual only talks about live rounds left in long guns?

Branchwater Jack - 88854

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Re: Penalty for a round (or spent case) left in long gun (not in chamber)
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2014, 07:04:08 AM »
I can see the confusion in the way that it is written, by an spent case in a 1911 is a no call as well.

The 1911 is going to be cleared on the line. If there is a live round in the magazine or loose in the slide when it was discarded, MSV, but can be corrected before firing the next gun to avoid the penalty.

If it is the last gun fired, the shooter has all the time necessary to clear it, drop magazine, drop slide, and pull the trigger to drop the hammer off the clock.

One of the big differences between cowboy and WB.

Branchwater Jack - 88854

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Well....since the WB forum doesn't migrate on and archive much, I just thought I would update this thread just in case someone reads this post...

As of April 2015...A shooter now earns a 10 second, minor safety penalty for a spent case left in long gun as long as it is not in the chamber. 

There is, however, no penalty for leaving a spent case in a pistol.  Again, spent case in a pistol is a no call.

If a shooter leaves a spent case in the chamber of a closed long gun, or leaves a live round in the magazine or carrier of a long gun, they earn two, 10 second, minor safety penalties.

Quote from: WB Handbook
Minor Safety Penalties
• Not clearing the action of a long gun at the end of the shooting string before the
next firearm is fired.
• Leaving live rounds in magazine or carrier of the long gun in which it was loaded.
• A spent round left in the chamber of a closed long gun.

Cleared – no live or empty cases in or on the chamber, magazine, or carrier.

« Last Edit: May 18, 2015, 01:04:33 PM by Branchwater Jack - 88854 »

Happy Jack

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It appears that we have a minor problem. We need to fix the definition of "CLEARED" in the glossary. We added "Action Cleared" (lever and pump action long guns) to the glossary, but failed to update "cleared".

The committee struggled with how to reconcile our policy that a spent cartridge/hull in a firearm with the action open is a NO CALL with the CAS rule that it is.   THAT IS STILL THE CASE !!!!! No call if the action is open.

On to the history behind the new rules. Since the empty is a no call in an open firearm there was concern that shooters would just discard the firearm without fully trying to eject the last spent round. They could discard the gun with the action slightly open and just say that they tried and failed therefore making it a no call. We felt that to prevent trying this we instituted the MSV for failing to clear the action of a long gun.
SEE page 28 Shooter's Handbook Glossary:
ACTION CLEARED ....  Opening the action far enough to extract and eject a round from the chamber.

SO: you can get 2 MSV's for a spent round in a long gun.
ONE for failing to perform the "Action Cleared" at the conclusion of the shooting string
and TWO for having a spent round in a long gun with the Action CLOSED.

However, you only get ONE if you attempted to clear the action at the conclusion of the shooting string and the empty for some reason didn't eject and is found in a gun with the action closed.

You have the option of going back and clearing the long gun before firing the next round to prevent the penalty.

You get NO MSV for a spent round in a discarded gun with the action OPEN.

I hope this clarifies the "spent round" questions and we will try to get the Glossary updated.
Incidentally there is also a MISTAKE on the Pocket RO card.
It shows a SDQ for "an illegal or illegally modified firearm". That is INCORRECT. It is a MDQ for scoring purposes only. The correct penalty IS listed in the text area at the bottom of the card.

In spite of our best efforts sometimes things slip through. We appreciate your patience.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 09:39:42 AM by Happy Jack »
1911's RULE !!!

J. Frank Norfleet

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Trying to get my mind around this while keeping it simple:
> Action open and empty - No Call
> Action open with spent round in action - No Call
> Action closes after being cleared and empty - No Call  (long gun is cleared on the line at the end of the stage)
> Action open with live round on carrier - MSV (can be corrected before next firearm is fired)
> Action closes after being cleared and spent round is in gun - 1 MSV (can be corrected before next firearm is fired)
> Shooter discards gun without clearing with spent round in chamber - 2 MSVs (can be corrected before next firearm is fired)

JFN
« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 09:02:36 AM by J. Frank Norfleet »
"Pilgrim, life is hard - It's a lot harder when you're stupid."  Marion Mitchell Morrison

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein

Lone Dog

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My feeble mind is not pliable enuff to wrap around all that...
SASS Life, NRA Life, VFW Life, FOP Life
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Happy Jack

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JFN, you have it right.
1911's RULE !!!

Grouchy Spike

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Re: Penalty for a round (or spent case) left in long gun (not in chamber)
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2015, 02:27:10 PM »
Gonna write that down and tape it to a buttstock!

Seems more simple in interpretation and application to say ‘no case spent or live can be left in a discarded weapon without penalty’ or some such.

6/10/15  The more I think about this rule the more I consider it unnecessary and complicated, subject to interpretation.

Why is it necessary?  Would we be as well served if no rounds, live or spent, could be left anywhere in a long gun?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 04:18:52 PM by Grouchy Spike »
Run - Hide - Call?  Forget it !  Draw - Aim - Shoot