Author Topic: BAMM rifle question  (Read 15164 times)

Garand

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Re: BAMM rifle question
« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2015, 03:43:11 PM »
We have quite detailed requirements in the manual for our 1911's, we have 2 classes for our 1911's. Why can't we have a Traditional & a Modern class for BAMM rifles? Traditional would be pre 1916 designed rifles w/ lead bullets, Modern would be any military bolts after that date using jacketed ammo? Any thoughts? Members that shoot in a Traditional Class would also be equipped to shoot the Bucky O'Neil Competition at Winter Range if they choose to. Shooting accurately a 100 year old rifle with cast bullets is far different than shooting a newer rifle only 70 years old.

Actually at winter range this year I believe my cartridge belt did have "eagle snaps", I think I was the only one actually wearing a cartridge belt.
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DUSTY BODDAMS

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Re: BAMM rifle question
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2015, 04:20:39 PM »
I really think BAMM should stay as simple as possible at this stage. Several of the ranges around here won't let jacketed be shot. I'm curious though when you look at BAMM and its reloads on the clock are you thinking krag or? As far as 70 year old versus 100 year old ,mausers carried the exact sights thru that whole time period. 03's with barrel sights and mark ones,mosins are basically the same barrel sight thru there whole production. 03a3,mark 4 and Jungle Carbine went the peep rear sight for ww2. I'm sorry I just understand what that far difference is that you speak of.  :) now you know if you want to go this pre 1916 route we gotta change your name......it just ain't gonna fit! Dusty

Wild Bodie Tom

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Re: BAMM rifle question
« Reply #32 on: August 06, 2015, 05:08:02 PM »
Geezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Try to open up another thing to shoot. TRY to keep it simple. And off we go into this and that, etc.
My thought, doesn't matter really, is allowing an 03-a3 peep into the mix was questionable.... But seriously.
I guess I just don't get it really anymore.
We can rule, rule, rule. And somewhere, somehow, someone is going to want or ask "well can I do/use this"
It started simple. Now even BAMM is starting with all the what if's........
WWII as issued rifle to military.
Seems pretty simple.
We shoot made in 2015 1911's. So, do they need to manufactured prior to say 1945?????
The 1911 requirements have been so polluted to be period correct it's almost a joke.
But, we carry on.......
The bottom line is the person pulling the trigger.... Always has been, Always will.

Rant off.....
Flame on. 
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DUSTY BODDAMS

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Re: BAMM rifle question
« Reply #33 on: August 06, 2015, 06:13:46 PM »
WBT, my point exactly! We are not a reenactment group. We are a group of competitors shooting old guns. I want this game to grow and growth is keyed to how many folks can play the game . to play the game we need rifles and those need to be priced where everybody that has a desire can afford one so looking at the surplus market we still have a lot of great mausers and mosins to be had cheap and if a mans feeling flush there are those 2500.00 collector grade 03's. The one thing that they all have in common is equal footing in BAMM. You are correct that it is the man behind the trigger that wins the game.  It's a great movie that this game is loosely based on but it's just entertainment it never claimed to be historically correct and neither should we. we should try for movie correct ,as a good friend of mine says .The point of BAMM is not the gun but the course that's run.

Garand

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Re: BAMM rifle question
« Reply #34 on: August 06, 2015, 06:33:10 PM »
Rifles with cast bullets are more difficult to find an accurate load for, Krags with the speed loading capability are few and far between if there are any outside of museums, therefore someone who chooses a Springfield automatically has a distinct advantage. What does the cost of rifles have to do with this thread? And the reason I chose my "name" is the fact that I use it on a number of other forums.
Canadian Army 1973-2002 Infantry/Ammo Tech/EOD. 
Now as a retired Explosives Technician
SASS # 93688 aka Dapper Dynamite Dick
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DUSTY BODDAMS

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Re: BAMM rifle question
« Reply #35 on: August 06, 2015, 06:56:30 PM »
 :) garand,hey take it easy.i was joking and the joke was your name is a ww2 battle rifle and you want to date the guns pre 1916. Cost of equipment is always asked about the old guns along with availability.As far as accurate lead loads in BAMM rifles I've never had anything easier to make shoot well with lead bullets. As far as krag vs. 03 Springfield's if a competitor goes out and buys a krag with the known reload requirments then he put himself at the disadvantage no one did it to him.

Garrison Joe

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Re: BAMM rifle question
« Reply #36 on: August 06, 2015, 08:36:53 PM »
Quote
I really think BAMM should stay as simple as possible

If you really do, then nothing is simpler than:
Quote
WWII as issued rifle to military

ANYTHING more complicated is just    ....   more complicated.

Good luck, GJ

Good luck, GJ

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DUSTY BODDAMS

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Re: BAMM rifle question
« Reply #37 on: August 06, 2015, 09:22:35 PM »
GJ, how true! Now if folks can just have enough common sense to realize that production of ww2 rifles continued past 1945 we have got it made!

Garand

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Re: BAMM rifle question
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2015, 09:35:27 PM »
If we are "just a group of competitors", maybe we should just show up in designer blue jeans, T shirts and baseball caps? Wild Bunch has been organized as represented by the shooters manual and it has been expanded for the better. All this is, is organizing another facet of Wild Bunch.

And frankly, trying to make long range rifles run with cast bullets is one of the most frustrating experiences in life !!
Canadian Army 1973-2002 Infantry/Ammo Tech/EOD. 
Now as a retired Explosives Technician
SASS # 93688 aka Dapper Dynamite Dick
RO 1 & RO II, Wild Bunch RO

DUSTY BODDAMS

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Re: BAMM rifle question
« Reply #39 on: August 07, 2015, 07:31:49 AM »
Garand, really I'm serious out of 20 rifles all of them shot lead without any work or load development truly the easiest guns I've worked with. Maybe there is something that you've overlooked in your load development. It shouldn't be that difficult. Tell me what rifle are you loading for?
Also what bullets are you using now and what powder?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2015, 07:39:23 AM by DUSTY BODDAMS »

Lone Dog

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Re: BAMM rifle question
« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2015, 04:37:56 PM »
BAMM is not bullseye and the 100 to 200 yard range is certainly not long range by any means. The lead pills I shoot out of my Mosins do the job fine. It's the old shaky shooter that causes the misses. By no means should we dis-allow any of the military bolt action Mausers. I do not care when they were built. That line of "reasoning" is much too unreasonable. Hell there may have even been Moisins built after WWII. Let 'em all shoot. Last BAMM match I shot at TX state two years ago they even let me shoot a Moisin with an ugly gray plastic modern stock! Dusty is SO right -- we are trying to grow BAMM not throttle it.

I know at CVV lead pills are required per the land owner and that means handloads. Precludes cheap surplus ammo. If your range allows, shooting the surplus will get you a lot more shooters I do sincerely believe
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Garand

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Re: BAMM rifle question
« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2015, 08:28:13 AM »
First off, I'm using the powders that I currently have in stock and up here in Canada the supply is worse than the US. I'm using Red Dot, Unique, IMR 4198 & IMR 4895 currently. While I have good 100 yd results in .32-40, .38-55 & 6.5x 55mm with Red Dot & Unique, I can't seem to find a good reliably accurate load out to 250-300 yds.
Canadian Army 1973-2002 Infantry/Ammo Tech/EOD. 
Now as a retired Explosives Technician
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RO 1 & RO II, Wild Bunch RO

DUSTY BODDAMS

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Re: BAMM rifle question
« Reply #42 on: August 10, 2015, 12:46:25 PM »
Garand, of course there are lots of variables but if you're getting good accuracy at 100 and falling apart at 200 plus it has to be the bullet destabilizing. Could be too lite of bullet, could be running to slow, GC bullets are great . You might not have a bunch of powders but the ones you have are good. Have you tried the 4895 at 70 percent of the starting load with lead gas check bullet in its proper weight?  Another thought barrel condition on the 6.5 ? Might lead quickly if it's dark or rough. Unique and red dot might be a little position sensitive but I wouldn't think enough to make the wheels fall off. Hope this helps keep us posted.  Dusty Boddams

Garrison Joe

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Re: BAMM rifle question
« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2015, 01:49:59 PM »
Garand:

For the Swede - many a cast bullet shooter has come to believe their accuracy sweet spot is 1500-1600 FPS.  No faster!   And that military barrel usually has a VERY long throat.  And the fast twist needs a heavy for caliber bullet. 

So, I have worked up some loads that seem good to at least 200 yards (3" groups).  They use the Lyman 266673 bullet (150 grains nominal) cast with 16 Brinell hardness lead (air cooled) and gas checked.   Sized 0.001 over bore diameter (in my case 0.268).   Lubed with Carnuba Red lube from White Label Lube.   
http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/
Over 2400 or 5744 or Reloader 7.   In increasing order of accuracy for me.  I tried 4198 but found accuracy fell off from Rx7.

Keep on working, either your alloy is a little soft (bullet deforms the long nose during firing) or you are pushing it too slow to stabilize or too fast to hold a good group.  Find a chrono to shoot your loads over, with 6.5x55 it's really critical to hit a good muzzle velocity for your gun.

Good luck, GJ


 
« Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 02:29:15 PM by Garrison Joe »
Good luck, GJ

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Why else would you want to be here?

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DUSTY BODDAMS

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Re: BAMM rifle question
« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2015, 02:53:45 PM »
Garand:

For the Swede - many a cast bullet shooter has come to believe their accuracy sweet spot is 1500-1600 FPS.  No faster!   And that military barrel usually has a VERY long throat.  And the fast twist needs a heavy for caliber bullet. 

So, I have worked up some loads that seem good to at least 200 yards (3" groups).  They use the Lyman 266673 bullet (150 grains nominal) cast with 16 Brinell hardness lead (air cooled) and gas checked.   Sized 0.001 over bore diameter (in my case 0.268).   Lubed with Carnuba Red lube from White Label Lube.   
http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/
Over 2400 or 5744 or Reloader 7.   In increasing order of accuracy for me.  I tried 4198 but found accuracy fell off from Rx7.

Keep on working, either your alloy is a little soft (bullet deforms the long nose during firing) or you are pushing it too slow to stabilize or too fast to hold a good group.  Find a chrono to shoot your loads over, with 6.5x55 it's really critical to hit a good muzzle velocity for your gun.

Good luck, GJ

Great advice from a man that actually loads the swede.! You know GJ it seems like the 1500-1700 foot range is the sweet spot for several of these old mil spec bolt guns.  Dusty Boddams