Author Topic: Recipe information please  (Read 9029 times)

Boggus Deal

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Re: Recipe information please
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2015, 07:20:11 PM »
Hello, I'm new to this forum and going to be new to wild bunch shooting soon. I've been shooting cowboy
action shooting for a year. I want to try my hands at Wild Bunch.
I have two 8 pound jugs of Red Dot and about ten 1 pound bottles of Trail Boss.
I'm looking for a recipe for 45 ACP that I can use with the two Powders I have.
Thanks
and sorry if this is posted somewhere else.

Kid,
Just so you know, they aren't one pound bottles of Trail Boss. They are 9 ounce bottles. There are others who have used Trail Boss for 45 Auto loads. I have no idea, though.

J. Frank Norfleet

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Re: Recipe information please
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2015, 08:55:21 PM »
I shoot Red Dot and/or Promo for practice and local matches.  230 grain bullet, 3.8 gr Promo or RD and a small primer case will give me a PF of 159.  Large primer cases will give a bit more fps to bump the PF up to 162.  Your pistol might give you something different so chronograph your loads.  Start at 3.6 to 3.8 until you find the load for your pistol.  As I stated above my best guess on TB is 4.0 grains behind a 230 gr bullet.
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Garrison Joe

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Re: Recipe information please
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2015, 07:35:56 AM »
Well, what bullet weight are you going to shoot in .45 Auto?   You gotta give us that if you want safe loading data.

If you follow many of the other shooters, a 230 grain bullet at 160 Power Factor (PF) should be your aim.   That would be 695 Feet Per Second (FPS).   Red Dot at about 3.7 - Whoa, more like about 4.3 grains - according to Lyman -  would get you close to that.  Any good reloading manual should show that load and it's velocity.   

IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A RELOADING MANUAL yet, get one!!    I'd recommend the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook for a great resource for loading for Wild Bunch and Cowboy, too.

« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 09:39:42 PM by Garrison Joe »
Good luck, GJ

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Kid McClintock

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Re: Recipe information please
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2015, 04:26:14 PM »
I have on hand160 and 200 grain projectile. (Round nose and cast lead.) Not sure if a specific size is needed to shoot wild bunch

Boggus Deal

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Re: Recipe information please
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2015, 04:42:36 PM »
I have on hand160 and 200 grain projectile. (Round nose and cast lead.) Not sure if a specific size is needed to shoot wild bunch

Per the Wild Bunch Action Shooting Handbook.

• Pistol and rifle ammunition must have a minimum bullet weight of 180gr (11.66
grams).

Garrison Joe

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Re: Recipe information please
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2015, 04:42:59 PM »
Minimum weight bullets for Wild Bunch is 180 grain, by rule.  Kinda hard to make power factor with them, however.   Practical limits for 1911 bullets are from 200 to 230 grains, and usually either a round nose, RNFP, or truncated cone nose.  Semi-wadcutters will work but not many folks use them because extra attention must be paid to throating and polishing.

With what you have on hand, use the 200 grain RN or RNFP.  Either will be fine.   That will need a little more powder than the 230 grain loads you have received so far.  Lyman suggests about 4.6 to 4.7 grains Red Dot to make 800 FPS (PF 160).
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 09:42:10 PM by Garrison Joe »
Good luck, GJ

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J. Frank Norfleet

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Re: Recipe information please
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2015, 09:39:50 PM »
Kid,
The 160 gr are not legal for WBAS, so burn them up in practice.  Who cares how they are loaded.
The 200 gr are legal and when I shot them in my pistol (past tense), I loaded 200 gr RNFP bullets with 4.5 gr Red Dot to get 806 fps for a 161 PF (Win large Mag primer at 1.185 COL) out of my pistol.
If your 200 grain bullets are round nose flat points you might save them for you rifle.  I can't feel any difference between 200 gr and 230 gr bullets loaded to 160+ PF in my rifle.  But for a reason I can't explain I like the 200 gr RNFP better.
Future pistol bullet purchases should be 230 gr bullets.  I shoot 230 grain bullets over Red Dot for practice and local matches because it is cheap and I like to shoot a lot.  For major matches work up loads using the Trail Boss (or WST) because it is a slower burning powder.   TB is the powder I use in my rifle.
I respectfully disagree with GJ, I consider printed hand-load books absolutely worthless.  Your best load data is what you develop using your own chronograph.  Find a starting load here or Handloads.com and chronograph it! 
JFN
"Pilgrim, life is hard - It's a lot harder when you're stupid."  Marion Mitchell Morrison

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein

Garrison Joe

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Re: Recipe information please
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2015, 09:43:36 PM »
I never trust loading data for semi-auto pistols to come out at the velocity that the manual shows, either.  I always chronograph.  But, the loading manuals sure get you to a good safe starting point, and the chrono will take you the rest of the way! 

GJ
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 09:45:15 PM by Garrison Joe »
Good luck, GJ

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J. Frank Norfleet

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Re: Recipe information please
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2015, 09:55:43 PM »
I never trust loading data for semi-auto pistols to come out at the velocity that the manual shows, either.  I always chronograph.  But, the loading manuals sure get you to a good safe starting point, and the chrono will take you the rest of the way! 

GJ

Joe,
That is true, no offense intended!  We are both using the chronograph to get to our goal.  I personally will no longer will buy a manual for a starting point when that information is free on the internet.  That $ is better spent on a chronograph.
JFN
"Pilgrim, life is hard - It's a lot harder when you're stupid."  Marion Mitchell Morrison

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein

Garrison Joe

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Re: Recipe information please
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2015, 10:55:33 PM »
Well, most of the commercial loading manuals are assembled by technicians and ballisticians with years of experience, and "insider" information about the makeup of the powders and other components.  I sure trust them more than I do Joe Reloader's pet load on a free web site.   But, I also know what makes sense and what pressure signs look like.   I put ALL that data together as best I can  and have never blown up a gun.   

So for a beginning reloader (perhaps just beginning on this one particular chambering, in fact) I still recommend a study of the commercial loading manuals before starting to assemble rounds.   And, when talking cast bullet loads, the only manual with a good number of those is the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook.

So, if you don't mind, I'll just keep recommending pards at least look Lyman over before they start.  ;D 8)

Good luck, GJ

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J. Frank Norfleet

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Re: Recipe information please
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2015, 08:45:33 AM »
Sadly Joe I have blown a pistol up.  I did it by using the "most accurate" load out of a printed Nosler load manual for the Nosler bullets I was loading.  A small case (40 S&W) with a bulky powder, so it wasn't a double charge.  It was a Glock, so a new mag and mag release and we were good to go again.

We all have different experiences which shape our recommendations.  This is why I believe a chronograph is more important.  Few people will spend the $100 for an inexpensive chronograph.  We get lazy and use someone else's data whether it is published in a manual by a reputable company or from "Joe Reloader."  My laziness that day taught me a lesson.

So you recommend a load manual and I will recommend a chronograph and maybe we will get new reloaders to buy both!
JFN
"Pilgrim, life is hard - It's a lot harder when you're stupid."  Marion Mitchell Morrison

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein

Tully Mars

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Re: Recipe information please
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2015, 09:05:07 AM »
Buy both and don't look back. The manual's give more information then just load data and the chronograph's tell the absolute truth! JFN's correct load data can be found online from the powder maker, but there is interesting things elsewhere in the manuals, such as the history of the cartridge or being able to compare different cartridges performances.

Most top shooters have moved to 230 grains for the reasons mentioned by Boggus and others.

JFN,

I'm curious as to why your "practice" rounds are different powder than your big match rounds. Is it simply powder availability or something else? 

Tully
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 09:06:49 AM by Tully Mars »

Texas Bart

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Re: Recipe information please
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2015, 10:05:44 AM »
Buy both and don't look back. The manual's give more information then just load data and the chronograph's tell the absolute truth! JFN's correct load data can be found online from the powder maker, but there is interesting things elsewhere in the manuals, such as the history of the cartridge or being able to compare different cartridges performances.

Most top shooters have moved to 230 grains for the reasons mentioned by Boggus and others.

JFN,

I'm curious as to why your "practice" rounds are different powder than your big match rounds. Is it simply powder availability or something else? 

Tully
+1 on buy both, especially if new to reloading. There is a lot more reloading information in most manuals than load data.

J. Frank Norfleet

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Re: Recipe information please
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2015, 10:51:02 AM »

JFN,

I'm curious as to why your "practice" rounds are different powder than your big match rounds. Is it simply powder availability or something else? 

Tully

Cost, RD and now Promo are cheaper. 
"Pilgrim, life is hard - It's a lot harder when you're stupid."  Marion Mitchell Morrison

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein

Tully Mars

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Re: Recipe information please
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2015, 11:19:45 AM »
"Cost, RD and now Promo are cheaper."


Got it. Was just wondering :)