Author Topic: Rule clarification please  (Read 4529 times)

Coyote Kincaid

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Rule clarification please
« on: December 29, 2015, 05:30:04 PM »
Looking at a couple things for Modern category. First is nothing covering the front strap. Now I know this was meant for the wrap around grips but what about the checkering that Wilson makes?
http://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/frame-parts/frame-hardware/front-straps/1911-auto-checkered-front-strap-prod16409.aspx

Next is concerning the guide for. Is the Wilson group gripper in anyway considered a recoil reduction device?
 http://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/recoil-parts/recoil-hardware/1911-auto-group-gripper-guide-rod-plug-prod16415.aspx

Garrison Joe

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Re: Rule clarification please
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2015, 07:08:13 PM »
Quote
Looking at a couple things for Modern category. First is nothing covering the front strap. Now I know this was meant for the wrap around grips but what about the checkering that Wilson makes?

I assume you are referring to this product, the Wilson "1911 Checkered Front Strap" - a 0.006" thin steel overlay.

http://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/frame-parts/frame-hardware/front-straps/1911-auto-checkered-front-strap-prod16409.aspx

Checkered front grip strap overlay seems to be allowed for Modern guns, as long as it is not "part of the grips".

Why is this my conclusion?  For traditional pistols, the rule says:
When checkering,  matting, or stippling is  mentioned, it  means actually cutting a pattern in the frame or slide.

But in the Modern pistol requirements, it is softened to read:
Checkered front strap and trigger guard allowed.  This means  any  type  of checkering, stippling, and/or serrations are
legal.



As for the Group Gripper, I sure would not consider it a recoil reduction device. 
Rules allow, for Modern (or Traditional):
Internal accurizing and action tuning is allowed.

But I'd weigh any reduced reliability that the Gripper might introduce against the rewards that Wild Bunch has for high reliability of pistol operations, and fairly generous target size, and might well decide WB is a speed game rather than an accuracy game.

In fact, I'd go so far as to venture the statement:
"If you are missing targets with your 1911 in Wild Bunch matches, it's your own darn fault, not that of the gun."   And probably due to improper time, trigger and sight control.   

Good luck, GJ





« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 07:12:09 PM by Garrison Joe »
Good luck, GJ

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Coyote Kincaid

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Re: Rule clarification please
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2015, 07:19:17 PM »
I haven't made up my mind on if I want checkering, chain links or snake skin done to my front strap and I figured that would give me a chance to make up my mind. My gun is pretty accurate for WB but I shoot CMP side matches with it as well, where accuracy is big. I just wanted to make sure if I forgot to take it out then I wouldn't catch a SDQ or MDQ. I would rather not have a full length guide during a WB match for obvious reasons.

Boggus Deal

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Re: Rule clarification please
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2015, 07:43:48 PM »
Maybe not so obvious to some of us. Care to explain?

Coyote Kincaid

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Re: Rule clarification please
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2015, 08:36:02 PM »
If I ever have a round that jams the action, I can put the front of the slide on a shelf and push the frame forward to eject it. With a full length guide rod it prevents this action and I would have to take the misses. I have had to do this a couple times during a match. I could prevent this probably by buying a Lyman ammo checker but I've never gotten around to it.

Garrison Joe

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Re: Rule clarification please
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2015, 09:26:03 PM »
All the top WB shooters I know religiously gauge every 1911 round they take to a match.   It's well worth it, as the 45 Auto has tolerances that make it anything but straightforward to load 100% reliable lead bullet ammo.  The tight chamber, the really tight and short throat, and the need for semi-auto operation at 100% reliability all conspire to trip up even well experienced 1911 jacketed ammo shooters.

Get an ammo gauge!  Dillon makes a great one, tightly toleranced and accurate.  If it goes in that, it slips right through my 1911s.
Good luck, GJ

Ride hard, shoot straight and speak the truth.    Col. J Cooper
Why else would you want to be here?

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Wild Bodie Tom

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Re: Rule clarification please
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2015, 08:49:31 AM »
Either have a smith fit your barrel (read tig) or have a smith fit any of the good aftermarket barrels if you are worried about hitting a 10-16 inch plate at 10-20 yards....
If using other places, same thing.
Stock Colt barrels out of a barrel vise will go under an inch at fifty yards....
I may get flamed, but most of the what I call gimmicks to improve accuracy are just that, and actually can lead to gun damage. Especially for how much we shoot em.
Wild Bodie Tom
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Boggus Deal

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Re: Rule clarification please
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2015, 10:44:02 AM »
If I ever have a round that jams the action, I can put the front of the slide on a shelf and push the frame forward to eject it. With a full length guide rod it prevents this action and I would have to take the misses. I have had to do this a couple times during a match. I could prevent this probably by buying a Lyman ammo checker but I've never gotten around to it.

Not as easy to do with a guide rod as without but still can be done. As you mention, I try to prevent that from happening by gauging all my ammo. Usually, once you find a good bullet, good brass, good dies and a good reloading process, it goes a lot easier and I have less and less bad ammo.

Coyote Kincaid

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Re: Rule clarification please
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2015, 11:08:28 PM »
I ordered the Dillon case gauge today. I've got a buddy of mine that uses one of those guide rods and swears by it. The CMP match is 20 rounds a month so it's not like it will be in the gun for other shooting purposes.

Dirty Southpaw

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Re: Rule clarification please
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2016, 12:08:34 AM »
All the top WB shooters I know religiously gauge every 1911 round they take to a match.   It's well worth it, as the 45 Auto has tolerances that make it anything but straightforward to load 100% reliable lead bullet ammo.  The tight chamber, the really tight and short throat, and the need for semi-auto operation at 100% reliability all conspire to trip up even well experienced 1911 jacketed ammo shooters.

Get an ammo gauge!  Dillon makes a great one, tightly toleranced and accurate.  If it goes in that, it slips right through my 1911s.

100% right!

Abe E.S. Corpus

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Re: Rule clarification please
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2016, 08:22:14 PM »
Did anyone from the rules committee chime in on the OP's question about the legality of the Wilson Combat "removable" frontstrap checkering piece?

I had one on my gun (was trying to determine whether to pay to have my frame checkered) but I pulled it to avoid a controversy about its legality.

Happy Jack

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Re: Rule clarification please
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2016, 09:59:45 AM »
As far s I am concerned it is LEGAL on a modern pistol.  I wrote most of the rule book. Is is not a "wrap around grip." Just an add on part that covers only the front strap.
1911's RULE !!!

Abe E.S. Corpus

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Re: Rule clarification please
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2016, 08:05:18 PM »
Thank you, Jack.  I shot my first WBAS match in over a year yesterday.  Hoping for more opportunities to shoot later on in the year.