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C.N. Double

What the heck did I just buy?

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I've been hunting for deals to get started in CAS, and I found what appears to be a Winchester 1892 saddle ring carbine at a gun show yesterday, and the price seemed right, so I bought it.

I cleaned it up, and it seemed sound, so I fired about 20 rounds through it. The magazine tube started to slide forward, which prevented me from loading it, but I got it back in place and tightened it back down. Then, after another 20 rounds or so, it stopped firing, and the firing pin is no longer visible in the front of the bolt. It was shooting pretty nice until this happened.

The only Winchester markings are on the tang, but the barrel does have a simple "357 magnum" stamp. The semi-buckhorn rear sight has an 'R' inside a crosshair symbol.

I assume this is one of the newer Japanese-made 1892s, but it's been messed with, and I'd like to know what I got myself into. I'm going to try to get the bolt out today to see what the heck happened to the firing pin. I thought these had pretty robust pins, but maybe they aren't built like the originals.

Thanks for any insight to what it is I have and what may have gone wrong with the firing pin.

BTW, I'm not a member yet, but if all goes well at my first shoot in a couple of weeks, I'll be member'd up!

Cheers!

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Could be that's a Rossi rear sight.

 

Sounds like a stuck or broken firing pin.  Disassembly on any of the three or four makes of  92 is fairly complicated.  Nate Kiowa Jones has some video instructions at:

https://store.stevesgunz.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2

 

Good luck, GJ

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92 firing pins do break. I have had 3 break on me.

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Welcome to the Wire El Lobo Loco, Hope you join in the best game and folks goin. The folks here will give you great advice on your 92 issue.

 

image.jpeg.0981afbc30918a996983fe9f85907009.jpeg

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I think what you have is an original Winchester, made right here in the USA. It has been re-barreled to 357mag, a fairly common occurrence in years gone by, usually from a 32-20. The front sight is a modern ramp style.

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el Lobo - sorry to hear about your used rifle purchase but believe you bought a 'pig in a poke' rifle.  I would contact the seller at the gun show

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1 hour ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Could be that's a Rossi rear sight.

 

Sounds like a stuck or broken firing pin.  Disassembly on any of the three or four makes of  92 is fairly complicated.  Nate Kiowa Jones has some video instructions at:

https://store.stevesgunz.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2

 

Good luck, GJ

Disassembly is easy, it's figuring out how that damn Chinese puzzle goes back together that's challenging, until you figure out the dummy round trick.

Firing pins break, simple as that. I've had 1892 firing pins break the tip off before. New replacements usually need some minor fitting.

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16 minutes ago, Goody, SASS #26190 said:

I think what you have is an original Winchester, made right here in the USA. It has been re-barreled to 357mag, a fairly common occurrence in years gone by, usually from a 32-20. The front sight is a modern ramp style.

 

2 minutes ago, J Bar Binks, #47015 said:

Disassembly is easy, it's figuring out how that damn Chinese puzzle goes back together that's challenging, until you figure out the dummy round trick.

Firing pins break, simple as that. I've had 1892 firing pins break the tip off before. New replacements usually need some minor fitting.

 

Agree 110%!

You will find deals at the SASS matches, and be able to do a hands on test fire most of the time.

OLG

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That it's stamped "1892" makes me think it's an older Winchester. Some time after the turn of the century ( 1901, the last one) Winchester dropped the "18" from all their  model no. I'd guess that gun is near 100 years old. The serial number can be looked up in the blue book to get a date of manufacture .

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It looks like you have a 92 that has been cobbled together from parts.  It doesn’t have a front barrel band like a carbine should and the front sight is a type found on modern rifles rather than carbines.  Also the magazine is attached with a hanger from a rifle instead of a front barrel band.

 

You probably have an old refinished Winchester action that has been rebarreled with a .357 rifle (not carbine) barrel.

 

As for the loose magazine, it probably is held in place by the pin going through the magazine hanger about half way down the barrel.  There is a groove on both the mag tube and the barrel that should prevent movement.  This is the way mag tubs are secured on rifles.  On carbines there is a screw on the front end of the mag tube holding the end plug in the mag and protruding into a blind hole in the barrel to hold the tube in place.  Also the screw that goes through the barrel band at the front of the forend goes through grooves in the barrel and tube to secure the band, forend and tube.  You will just have to look to be sure which type or maybe all or none of these secure your mag tube.

 

As for the firing pin, you will have to take the bolt apart to check it.  Replacements are available.

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Thanks for the replies -- this is all great info.

 

The mag tube is secured by both methods Cypress Sam mentioned, and after cleaning the mag spring and follower and tightening the pin and screw, it seems secure. The feeding ramp is  also operating normally now. Before, the feeding ramp would only occasionally pop up, but I never experienced any feeding issues. Granted, 40 rounds probably wasn't enough to tell for sure.

 

It sounds like I maybe got swindled, but the wood is very nice on this gun, and the serial number indicates it was originally built in 1919. The bluing is all very nice, and nothing seems overly worn.

 

I can't get the leaf spring screw out (it has already been marred by someone else), so I'll probably take it to a local smith to get the firing pin replaced. Do y'all have a favorite place to get parts for these old guns?

 

According to the SASS handbook, front ramp sights are only allowed if they are original to the firearm. In this case, is my rifle legal for CAS? The sight is original to the barrel as far as I can tell, so I'm hoping I'll get a pass.

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The R in a crosshair reminds me of the Redfeild logo from years ago     GW

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4 minutes ago, Black Angus McPherson said:

 

Is the rear sight on backwards?  It doesn't look right to me.

 

Angus

Sometimes the rear sights are too long to fit between the dovetail and the receiver so they put them on backwards.

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the rear sight is on correctly

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3 hours ago, El Lobo Loco said:

Thanks for the replies -- this is all great info.

 

The mag tube is secured by both methods Cypress Sam mentioned, and after cleaning the mag spring and follower and tightening the pin and screw, it seems secure. The feeding ramp is  also operating normally now. Before, the feeding ramp would only occasionally pop up, but I never experienced any feeding issues. Granted, 40 rounds probably wasn't enough to tell for sure.

 

It sounds like I maybe got swindled, but the wood is very nice on this gun, and the serial number indicates it was originally built in 1919. The bluing is all very nice, and nothing seems overly worn.

 

I can't get the leaf spring screw out (it has already been marred by someone else), so I'll probably take it to a local smith to get the firing pin replaced. Do y'all have a favorite place to get parts for these old guns?

 

According to the SASS handbook, front ramp sights are only allowed if they are original to the firearm. In this case, is my rifle legal for CAS? The sight is original to the barrel as far as I can tell, so I'm hoping I'll get a pass.

 

If you let us know your general geographic we can point you to a qualified Cowboy Gun smith that may be near you.

 

I doubt that you bough a pig in a poke. The 1892 design is fairly tough and most parts are not that hard to come by. Firing pins do break occasionally. Here is a schematic courtesy of Numrich aka Gun parts Corp. As you can see they have a new replacement firing pin in stock for a reasonable price.

 

I would give Nate Kiowa Jones aka Steve Young at Steve's Gunz a call. he is considered the 92 expert by many and can assist you with some general troubleshooting. He sells a video that shows the easy way to disassemble and reassembly the Rossi 92s. Your original 91892 will nor be too terrible different.

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The OP's sight is on correctly. Hickock 45's is on backwards, for some reason. Maybe better eye relief for eyes that have had too many birthdays.

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The original 92 carbines in 25-20 and 32-20 did not have a barrel band behind the front sight.They had a magazine ring like the one on your gun.The 38-40 and 44-40 had the barrel band behind the sight. That part of the gun is correct, it has a replacement barrel. Some of the later carbines did have the ramp sight.

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Thanks, pards. I'd try to investigate the firing pin myself, but I decided to leave the stripped mainspring screw up to the professionals on this one. My local gunsmith also referenced Numrich, so it's in his hands for now.

I should have it back in about a week, and I'll update y'all with how it's running. If things all work out, look for the newbie (me) in Tombstone on the 20th.

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2 hours ago, El Lobo Loco said:

Thanks, pards. I'd try to investigate the firing pin myself, but I decided to leave the stripped mainspring screw up to the professionals on this one. My local gunsmith also referenced Numrich, so it's in his hands for now.

I should have it back in about a week, and I'll update y'all with how it's running. If things all work out, look for the newbie (me) in Tombstone on the 20th.

 

Their names escape me at the moment but I am sure there are at least a couple excellent Cowboy gun smiths in your neck of the woods. Someone will chime in with their contact info soon.

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Howdy,

I don't know what you paid, but if it just isn't right,

pm me and I could probably take it off your hands

and you could have money towards a 73.

Just sort of a plan B.

Best

CR

 

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The rear site IS a "Redfield" I bought about 100 of them 40 years ago when "Redfield" was closing out on them ... Most are now on Clients guns .

Your gun looks like a poorly done Parts Gun, hope you didn't pay a bunch for it ... It can be put right though.

 

Jabez Cowboy

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Howdy Pards,

 

Just wanted to send an update on this '92. The new firing pin seems to be pokin' primers just fine. I've since picked up a real nice '73, but I might keep this '92 around in case my B-Western costume ever gets completed.

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4 hours ago, El Lobo Loco said:

Howdy Pards,

 

Just wanted to send an update on this '92. The new firing pin seems to be pokin' primers just fine. I've since picked up a real nice '73, but I might keep this '92 around in case my B-Western costume ever gets completed.

Great to hear it. I was wondering how this all planned out for you.

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On 1/8/2018 at 11:12 AM, Goody, SASS #26190 said:

I think what you have is an original Winchester, made right here in the USA. It has been re-barreled to 357mag, a fairly common occurrence in years gone by, usually from a 32-20. The front sight is a modern ramp style.

Your gun is definitely a Winchester 92.  As goody said it has been converted to 357m with an aftermarket barrel. It would have been nice if they had gone with a front band, though. As you have found those ring hangers on round barrels can be a pain.

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Suggestion:   Get a factory letter for the gun.

 

I have 92 and an 86 that have clearly been modified from how they left the factory.   I was curious to know that their original configuration was.

 

In the case of the 92, which has been modified with a John Wayne Loop and had a .44 Magnum barrel on it, I found out that it started life as a .38-40.

 

The 86, had a longer barrel originally.

 

Nothing dramatic of course, but you never know.  Maybe your gun started out with a factory 14" barrel.  Odds are against it, but if it did, you might be able to "restore" to original condition and not have to go through NFA '34 hoops, if it was made before then.

 

You gotta dream!

 

Or, you can just be happy to know the original configuration for the sake of curiosity.

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