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45LC vs 44WCF for long range

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Just curious between the two which would you pick for pistol caliber long range ( and yes I know 44-40 aka 44WCF is technically a rifle round but for SASS it is a pistol calibet).

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Lots of things to consider. like projectile weight, powder charge, etc. factory ammo vs factory ammo for handgun loads. I think i'd go with the 44/40 it has a flatter trajectory out to about 130 yards. However another thing to consider is what do you call long range? For handguns 50-60 yards? for lever actions in handgun calibers 150-200 yards? Just playing around i've hit large targets at 300 yards with my 66 in .45 colt. I was aiming about a foot over the target lol. 

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49 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

What do you call 'long-range'?

OLG

This. When I started this game, we shot pistol cal lever gun out to 400 or 450 yards, which is kind of ridiculous. Now, there aren't many places that stretch it to even 150 yards.

Personally, between the two, I'd go .44-40, but it isn't going to make a whit of difference really.

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Posted (edited)

I usually see someone shooting a heavy-bullet load .357 magnum win the long range pistol caliber rifle side matches. 

 

Quote

Personally, between the two, I'd go .44-40, but it isn't going to make a whit of difference really.

 

Ummm, yep again.

 

The type of rifle is going to make more difference.  Marlins or 92s are usually tighter and more accurate than the toggle actions.   But side matches are way down on the list of importance for most folks.  Just bragging rights, after all, and to a small audience of other competitors.  Because of that, probably only one or two folks will be shooting a "special" rifle for the side match - others using their main match rifle, perhaps flipping up a tang sight.

 

Good luck, GJ

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708

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The 44WCF is the winner. My Son out shot his Cousin in a long range shoot-off, several years ago. The 44WCF was a 20" Rossi 92. The Cousin was shooting a Marlin 94, 24" 45 Colt. 10 shoots, first five were off-hand at 100 yards. Second 5 were 200 Yards, using cross sticks. The result was a score of 9-8 going to the little 92 44WCF. I loaded the 44WCF for my Son, my Brother loaded for the 45 Colt marlin 94. Both young men are excellent shots, with both revolver & rifle.

My Son won several contest using that 44WCF 92 Rossi. I loaded 200 gr. for 100 yards and 240 gr. for longer than 100 yards. Unique was the powder of choice.

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Posted (edited)

.44-40 or .45 Colt

 

Six of one half a dozen of the other.

 

Or if you prefer, .427 of one, .452 of the other.  

 

I use a 200 grain bullet for both, the same powder charge for both.   Don't really see all that much of a difference.

 

Throw in .44 Special and it gets even more indifferent!

 

Go with what you got, and do the best with.  :)

Edited by H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619

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Between the 2 calibers-Flip a coin, and work out a load the gun likes.

OLG

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Smokeless .45 Colt....black powder .44-40

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7 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

The type of rifle is going to make more difference.  Marlins or 92s are usually tighter and more accurate than the toggle actions.  

Good luck, GJ

 

Personally I think the rifle will make more difference that caliber, if it's the same rifle then my bet would be on 44-40 for no reason other than less diameter going down range. My .45lc  Marlin with a 24" barrel using a .454 diameter 255 grain bullet's has won many of long range matches and will out shoot any of my 73's as far as accuracy goes.

 

Tully

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Go with a  38/40  Hits harder and shoots flatter

 

 

 

 

 

 

Really - no difference.  Same with those that claim 44/40 is better than a 45LC with BP.  Somebody forgot to tell my Puma 92 in 45 that one...

Think it all boils down the skill level of the shooter

 

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Regardless of the differences in individual rifles or revolvers, ballistics over longer ranges will depend on the ballistics coefficient (C1) of the bullet, which depends on the Relative Sectional Density (RSD), which is the bullet weight in grains divided by the square of the diameter x 7000, and the shape of the bullet.  If we compare a 200gr .44 caliber (.430) bullet with a 200gr .45 caliber (.451) slug, the .44 has an RSD of 0.155, compared to 0.140 for the .45.  So a 200gr .44 will, shape being equivalent, carry a bit farther and buck the wind a bit better than a 200gr .45.  For a .44 bullet to equal the RSD of a 250 gr. .45, the smaller bullet would need to weigh 228gr.  Of course the differences in trajectory will only show up beyond, say, a couple of hundred yards or so. 

 

Incidentally, if one wonders why different cartridges have the most common weights they do, it is because the manufacturers tried to have equivalent RSD's.

For example:  a 158gr. .357" bullet has about the same RSD as a 250gr .45!  A 240gr. .44 has a bit better RSD than either.  Of course, the trajectories will depend on the muzzle velocities.  In black powder cartridges, a heavier bullet may not be capable of being driven as fast initially as a lighter one. But over long ranges, the heavier bullet will buck the wind better, even though the heavier bullet will have a more rainbow-like trajectory. 

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Posted (edited)

I say 45 Colt... i have a Rossi 92 and I can load "Ruger only" loads for it using that Hornady lever evolution bullet and really get that piece of lead humming... Plus, I've never seen Ruger only load data for the 44/40...

Edited by Boomstick Bruce

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1 hour ago, Boomstick Bruce said:

I say 45 Colt... i have a Rossi 92 and I can load "Ruger only" loads for it using that Hornady lever evolution bullet and really get that piece of lead humming... Plus, I've never seen Ruger only load data for the 44/40...

Never heard of "Hi-Vel" loads, eh?  Specifically stated not for use in SAAs or '73s...  Came in  both .44WCF & .32WCF flavors.  Hi-Vel .44-40 reading.

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Posted (edited)

Was surprised to see no data for WW231/HP-38 powder in that link, for the .44 WCF. :(

WW231/HP-38 is just a touch faster burn rate than Unique.

OLG

 

Edited by The Original Lumpy Gritz

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My pick would be the 44 WCF

 

But I ring steel at 200 with my 66 in 38 sp.

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21 hours ago, Boomstick Bruce said:

I say 45 Colt... i have a Rossi 92 and I can load "Ruger only" loads for it using that Hornady lever evolution bullet and really get that piece of lead humming... Plus, I've never seen Ruger only load data for the 44/40...

 

I do have an old Lyman reloading manual from the 60's that list 44/40 loads faster than the 44Mag.  Really amazing since Lyman was always  a little conservative on their loads.  Do believe the 38/40 also came in a HiVel Rifle only offering.

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Put a 300gr in the 45LC and you can shoot out to 500 meters ...

PDRM2906.jpg

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For me 45 lc.  Why, because I have a very good rifle in that caliber.  Common pistol calibers capable at 150 meters are so numerous and include the .357, 38-40,  44, and 45.  Much more important than caliber is your ammunition (reload), barrel, sights, chamber, head space and on and on. 

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About everyone was Ringing steel at 300 Yards with my .38-40 Low-Wall, Thin and Fat, Short and Tall Old and Young and Man and Women...

And all were amazed at the lack of recoil and the super fun of ringing steel...

 

Jabez Cowboy

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