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Kidd AtHeart  SASS # 74179

What’s The Call ?

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BACKGROUND:  We had a weekend match yesterday with Pungo Posse. Due to expected cold/snow with a light turnout, it was a simple match with all stages being rifle, shotgun, pistols order.  One of our buddies bought some really crappy 45LCs. Apparently the entire batch was bad. On 3 different stages, his first shot was a squib.The primer fired and bullet lodged in barrel. 

 

THE CALL:  The RO made the call (and all of us agreed) that the first shot did not go “down range”. We then gave him a reshoot. Remember, we were there for fun and mo’ practice. 

 

QUESTION: What is the proper call ?

 

Thanks in advance. 

 

Kidd AtHeart 

#74179

 

 

 

On 3 

Kidd AtHeart

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No round downrange means you have not started the stage.  The shooter can restart.

 

However, after the second squib, there's a safety issue.  I'd ask the shooter to get a different lot of ammo or lend him guns and ammo.  I'd do whatever I can so that the shooter can finish the stage, but not cause an issue with multiple squibs.

 

NNV

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I think the proper call was made.

 

SHB  p. 21

 

No Alibi/Reshoots/Restarts

SASS matches above the club level are “no alibi” matches. Once the first round goes down range, the competitor is committed to the stage and must finish the stage to the best of his or her ability. - Reshoots are not awarded for ammunition or firearm malfunctions. However, if there is a range failure (failure of props, failure of the timer, or Range Officer interference) beyond the competitor’s control, a reshoot may be granted.

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If a round hasn't gone downrange then the proper call is a restart.  The match director or range master have the discretion to test for power factor and make rulings accordingly.

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Good call, nothing downrange....happened to me yesterday I couldn't get my shotgun to work, grabbed a backup shotgun and proceeded to shoot!

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After the 2nd Squib the TO did tell the shooter he would have to change ammo to continue the match and the shooter complied.

 

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3 minutes ago, CodyMaverick said:

After the 2nd Squib the TO did tell the shooter he would have to change ammo to continue the match and the shooter complied.

 

Perfect solution.    That instruction CAN apply at any match.  It is required for matches above the club level.     

 

Unless you are trying to train spotters/TO to recognize a squib and to get the TO to immediately stop the shooter, having the shooter struggle with squibby ammo is not making anyone's day!

 

Good luck, GJ

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1 hour ago, CodyMaverick said:

After the 2nd Squib the TO did tell the shooter he would have to change ammo to continue the match and the shooter complied.

 

 

And after changing ammo, he had a third squib/stuck bullet??

 

On 3 different stages, his first shot was a squib.The primer fired and bullet lodged in barrel.

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Thanks for all the replies. Cody was there and part of the decision process. My concern was that the bullet did dislodge from the casing and travel roughly 12” or so down the barrel before stopping. The fine point was the definition of down range. Anywhere past the tip of the barrel, i.e., not lodged in the barrel ?

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3 hours ago, J Bar Binks, #47015 said:

 

And after changing ammo, he had a third squib/stuck bullet??

 

 

 

Ya-WTH is with that? :huh:

OLG

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I think the definition of a round down range is in the rule book.

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12 hours ago, J Bar Binks, #47015 said:

 

And after changing ammo, he had a third squib/stuck bullet??

 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Ya-WTH is with that? :huh:

OLG

 

I didn't notice the error in the OP,  It only happened twice.  On stage 1 he got a reshoot and used his backup rifle.  All 10 rounds fired and cleared the barrel but they were very light loads (even for CAS).  On stage 2 he had another squib on the very first shot and the TO told him to ground the rifle and finish the stage.  He was offered another reshoot but the shooter had two rifles with him and with both of them now plugged, he declined.  He borrowed a rifle for stage 3.  This club takes a 15min break between stages 3 and 4, during which he got one of his rifles cleared and I gave him ammo for the last 3 stages.

 

 

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1 hour ago, CodyMaverick said:

 

 

I didn't notice the error in the OP,  It only happened twice.  On stage 1 he got a reshoot and used his backup rifle.  All 10 rounds fired and cleared the barrel but they were very light loads (even for CAS).  On stage 2 he had another squib on the very first shot and the TO told him to ground the rifle and finish the stage.  He was offered another reshoot but the shooter had two rifles with him and with both of them now plugged, he declined.  He borrowed a rifle for stage 3.  This club takes a 15min break between stages 3 and 4, during which he got one of his rifles cleared and I gave him ammo for the last 3 stages.

 

 

Last sentence, of the OP's first paragraph.

"On 3 different stages, his first shot was a squib.The primer fired and bullet lodged in barrel."

That's a 3'fer in my book.;)

Thanks for letting know what did happen.........B)

OLG

Edited by The Original Lumpy Gritz

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That was probably light loads and cold weather (as many know). We had several squibs at our match this weekend and the high was 39, cloudy with a good breeze.

 

I really think many folks shoot loads so close to the basement floor the weather becomes an issue and the recoil is so light it's counterproductive in reality. 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Cowboy Junky said:

That was probably light loads and cold weather (as many know). We had several squibs at our match this weekend and the high was 39, cloudy with a good breeze.

 

I really think many folks shoot loads so close to the basement floor the weather becomes an issue and the recoil is so light it's counterproductive in reality. 

 

 

 

I can relate to this, I have about 300 pistol rounds that I can't use in my revolvers right now because the primers back out and jam up the gun.  Fortunately they do work fine in my Bond derringer so I guess I'll be getting a lot of derringer practice in the near future.   I loaded some new ones with the recommended minimum charge and found I like them better as they shoot a tad higher on the targets.

 

The shooter mentioned in the OP doesn't reload and purchased his ammo from a supplier in Montana that sells reloads specifically for CAS.  I suggested that he request a refund and tell the supplier to pay return shipping if he wants them back.

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Way, way, way back in the early days, we used to have a 650fps minimum.  Ever since that went away, squibs have been an issue.  ISTR that it was done away with on the simple basis that we didn't have a way to enforce it...  Whether any of us had a chronograph was immaterial, none of us brought one to a match and wanted to bother with testing.   (If someone had bought me one, I'd have been happy to test everyone's ammo... I couldn't afford one on my own)!  A condition that I'm happy to say is NOT an issue with WB.  And now I have one to ensure that my ammo is compliant!

 

Maybe we should rethink the idea of a velocity floor... as we have maintained the velocity ceiling... even when we couldn't test it either!

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