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Savvy Jack

Blown Guns During SASS Matches?

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I'd think I'd be breaking down the other round to see what was in them. <_<

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26 minutes ago, Cypress Sam, SASS #10915 said:

Chance Ramsey blew up two open tops at yesterday’s match with the Lake County Pistoleros.  As I understand it they were 38’s loaded with black powder.  He was shooting BP Gunfighter and blew up the guns with his first two shots.  He os a very experienced shooter and reloaded.  He told me that he was absolutely sure that there was no smokeless powder any where near where he was loading.  He was using a single stage press and dipping the powder with a calibrated dipper.

 

I have no idea how all this could be the case and still blow up both pistols on consecutive shots.  I wouldn’t have thought that you could get enough BP in a 38 case to blow up a gun (much less two guns).  I don’t know what weight bullet he was using, but assume it was 158 gr.

20190119_132524 3.jpg

I don’t know much about open tops but any chance the cylinders got swapped? Or maybe some type of cleaning materials obstructing the barrels?

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No one was injured but Chance was a little shaken up.  Given Chances’ experience and the fact that he has been shooting those guns for years, I doubt that he mixed up the cylinders or left cleaning materials in BOTH guns?  But no way to tell now.

 

My original thought was that he may have been loading using a powder measure with a little smokeless left in the bottom, but he was using a dipper which eliminates that possibility.

 

I certainly hope he breaks down the cartridges in that lot and finds the answer.

20190119_132524.thumb.jpg.eb570424a6ea3baaf9be9716eeef5227.jpg)

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12 minutes ago, Cypress Sam, SASS #10915 said:

No one was injured but Chance was a little shaken up.  Given Chances’ experience and the fact that he has been shooting those guns for years, I doubt that he mixed up the cylinders or left cleaning materials in BOTH guns?  But no way to tell now.

 

My original thought was that he may have been loading using a powder measure with a little smokeless left in the bottom, but he was using a dipper which eliminates that possibility.

 

I certainly hope he breaks down the cartridges in that lot and finds the answer.

20190119_132524.thumb.jpg.eb570424a6ea3baaf9be9716eeef5227.jpg)

 

 

What's odd about the picture;  the cylinders are rotated like he kept on shooting?    I can see the possibility of firing of two rounds if you're accustomed to shooting 2 in very quick succession.   But you'd think after the blowouts,  you'd stop.  Maybe they were taken down to clear the rest of the loaded rounds? 

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Mine, pictured above, ended up the very same way - with the split chamber to the side. The primer blows out and enough gas comes out the back of the chamber to blow the hammer back and turn the cylinder.

Edited by J Bar Binks, #47015
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21 minutes ago, Cypress Sam, SASS #10915 said:

No one was injured but Chance was a little shaken up.  Given Chances’ experience and the fact that he has been shooting those guns for years, I doubt that he mixed up the cylinders or left cleaning materials in BOTH guns?  But no way to tell now.

 

My original thought was that he may have been loading using a powder measure with a little smokeless left in the bottom, but he was using a dipper which eliminates that possibility.

 

I certainly hope he breaks down the cartridges in that lot and finds the answer.

20190119_132524.thumb.jpg.eb570424a6ea3baaf9be9716eeef5227.jpg)

It’s good to know he’s ok! The cylinder thing occurred to me because it’s a simple mistake that could explain both of them blowing up on the first shots which is a helluva coincidence.

Edited by Captain Bill Burt

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Would be VERY interested in finding out the actual load used, as it was not black powder, with almost certainty.

 

A case full of Unique, sure.  Not a case full of black powder.

 

Also, cylinders don't show the fouling that I would expect if a BP load caused the mishap.   Unless guns have been cleaned after the rupture.  Barrel should also show some residue from the powder involved.

 

Picture seems to show a case that appears shorter than a .38 special in the lower cylinder.   Perhaps the case ruptured and only a partial section remains in cylinder.   Interested to see what can be recovered.

 

Blowing both guns on a first shot of the lot - says it was the load that was the culprit, not the guns!

 

Good luck, GJ

 

(Extra photo gone - finally found a delete trash can in the photo-editor-panel)

 

 

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708

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I asked about the cylinders being rotated too.  They were disassembled to unload.  But when reassembled they were cocked to see if they would function.  When the damaged part of the cylinder hit the frame, the gun hung up and would not rotate far enough to drop the bolt.  The only to drop the bolt was to take them apart again

 

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There are a lot of scenarios, but uncontaminated black powder or substitute blowing up two guns is probably not a valid one. It could have been a bottle of smokeless powder with a similar color scheme. It could have been smokeless powder that was inadvertently poured back into the wrong bottle. It could have been intentional sabotage - "domestic terrorism" - somebody could have purchased a bottle of Pyrodex, Black MZ, whatever, went home, dumped it out, filled it with smokeless, and returned it. It could have been somebody slipping intentionally sabotaged rounds into the box. It's not completely out of the question that it could have been a mislabeled bottle from the manufacturer.
When I worked at Sportsman's Warehouse, I saw die sets more than once that were labeled and stamped, say, .300 Winchester Magnum, but were actually .243 dies or somesuch. We once received some Henry .22 rifles with ammo in them. Mistakes that can't happen sometimes happen.

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I load with a dipped same load I have loaded for years I clean after every match don't know going to talk to Uberti and a.p.p will post what they tell me

Chance

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3 hours ago, Chance Ramsay said:

I load with a dipped same load I have loaded for years I clean after every match don't know going to talk to Uberti and a.p.p will post what they tell me

Chance


Sorry for the loss the Chance, keep us informed. That bites!

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I have seen two 97s with out of battery discharge and two 1866s.   Saw a 1903 springfield in a BAMM match practice,  That one went all to pieces,  not one part was usable.   Saw an AR-15 blow at a 3 gun match,  he loaded a case of Bullseye.   Started competition shooting in 1974.  Bullett 19707

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