The SASS Wild Bunch Forum

Wild Bunch Boards => Reloading for Wild Bunch => Topic started by: VICIOUS on October 12, 2018, 03:43:49 PM

Title: 1911 springs.
Post by: VICIOUS on October 12, 2018, 03:43:49 PM
HI Gang; So with all this load conversation, how about springs?
             I use a 19# wolf main spring,(hammer). A 13# variable wolf recoil with a neoprene shock buffer.
Main 19# spring to get good hits on the primers.
13# recoil to allow easier racking and slower slide return into battery so the muzzle will not dip down below the target.
Title: Re: 1911 springs.
Post by: Flash on October 12, 2018, 06:28:14 PM
In my two Springfield M1A 1911s all I had to do is change the slide spring so I guess it depends on what brand and model pistol you have.
Title: Re: 1911 springs.
Post by: Happy Jack on October 13, 2018, 10:17:14 AM
Viscious, even though I have known Bill Wilson for over 50 years I disagree with him about the buffers. He is the ONLY serious 1911 builder that I know who uses shock buffers, They are usually a problem just waiting to happen. I think your recoil spring is a bit light but if it works for you, OK. However I would seriously recommend removing the worthless shock buffer.
Title: Re: 1911 springs.
Post by: VICIOUS on October 14, 2018, 07:48:30 PM
HI; Thanks for your concerns, you are most likely right. I use a shock buffer because it softens the felt recoil clang sound and feeling, most likely in my head. The recoil spring is light for easily to rack the slide. But I should put in at least a 15# and work with that.
Title: Re: 1911 springs.
Post by: Garrison Joe on October 14, 2018, 08:12:31 PM
I run a 15 recoil and 19 main with 165 PF loads.  Don't need or want a shock buff with that.  That combo in my gun still lets me shoot a factory load when I need to.   CHeck to see how far you are tossing empties.  4-6 feet from you is very common for a well tuned gun.

Good luck, GJ
Title: Re: 1911 springs.
Post by: Boggus Deal on October 15, 2018, 10:15:39 AM
Throw the ShokBuff away! I have seen too many frames crack because of them.
Title: Re: 1911 springs.
Post by: Garrison Joe on October 15, 2018, 12:18:47 PM
Quote
13# recoil <spring> to allow easier racking

You will find that it is the MAINSPRING that is the big contributor to how difficult it is to rack the slide.  Because the mainspring is what you are compressing as the hammer goes back, and it is stronger than the recoil spring.   Don't use a light recoil spring because of cocking ease.  Use correct one to properly return slide during firing, and also checking that you can charge an empty gun when using a fully loaded magazine (both from slide lock, and manually racking slide).  You need enough force to go to battery 100% after stripping the top round from a fully charged magazine, even with a dirty chamber.

Run this test:
The effort difference between racking the slide with hammer down, to racking with hammer already cocked, shows you that the effort to cock the hammer (against mainspring) is the main force!  It's normally about 2-3 times as hard to rack-to-cock than it is to rack-an-already-cocked 1911.  Of course, that higher level of force drops off when the slide has retracted about 3/4 inch, because the hammer has fully cocked at that distance.   Full slide travel during cycling - about 2 inches.   The rest of the backwards travel - is compressing the recoil spring only.

Good luck, GJ

Title: Re: 1911 springs.
Post by: Grouchy Spike on October 15, 2018, 02:21:14 PM
Another component that has an effect on the force required to retract the slide is the shape of the lower edge of the firing pin stop.  A squared edge contacts the hammer a bit lower than a rounded edge, offering less leverage to move the hammer.  A squared edge also slows (slightly) the initial movement of the slide to the rear when a cartridge is fired.
Title: Re: 1911 springs.
Post by: VICIOUS on October 15, 2018, 06:32:55 PM
Hi Gang; I just poped out the buffer and drop in a 15#. Will be the  range later in the week.
            Shock buffer causing cracked frames? That is new to me, never heard that before. How would that happen?
Title: Re: 1911 springs.
Post by: Boggus Deal on October 15, 2018, 08:52:12 PM
Hi Gang; I just poped out the buffer and drop in a 15#. Will be the  range later in the week.
            Shock buffer causing cracked frames? That is new to me, never heard that before. How would that happen?
When the buff disintegrates, and it will, it gets the guide rod and spring twisted around and will try to push it out the side of the frame.
When will the Shockbuff fail? 100 rounds? 1000?
I have one frame here still that is cracked and was able to repair several.
I can't tell that Shockbuffs really help with recoil.
Title: Re: 1911 springs.
Post by: VICIOUS on November 14, 2018, 07:51:17 PM
HI Gang!
               SO I guess this will be a SHOCKen surprise. I pulled a older Para apart to clean it and the shock buff was cut in a half moon at the top. Fired about 100 or so rounds, had a soft 13 Lb variable recoil spring. The web behind the spring had a burr on it. Interesting!
      Cleaned and filed down the burr and replaced with a 15 LB recoil spring. Glad this was only my old beater pistol.  POINT learned.
Thanks crew.
Title: Re: 1911 springs.
Post by: Garrison Joe on November 14, 2018, 08:58:03 PM
Da nada.   Or are we saying "no problemo" any more?  Mas o menos.

Check your ejection and fired brass - should be no damage to the mouths. Should be good feed, easy racking, reliable.  If not, find the problem and stomp it out.

No shock buff - no mooning. 

Good luck, GJ
Title: Re: 1911 springs.
Post by: Baltimoreed11754 on November 21, 2018, 11:06:12 AM
Never had a problem with shock buffs, have them in my full sized 1911s and in my Ruger minis. Steel slamming against steel can’t be a good thing. I know that’s not how JMB designed them but given the modern material they’re made of as compared to 1910 rubber who knows what JMB would have thought of them let alone polymer instead of steel. Think of what he could have done with a cnc machine. I also use a Tubbs flat recoil spring in my WB 1911 but like full length guide rods [not legal for WB duelist] in my other 1911s.