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Wild Bunch Boards => The Wild Bunch Wire => Topic started by: Blaze Kinkaid 253 on May 08, 2019, 09:47:56 AM

Title: BAMM
Post by: Blaze Kinkaid 253 on May 08, 2019, 09:47:56 AM
Pards; there is some interest in BAMM matches here in So Arizona, as two of our top shooters are involved in it.  Is there a written format for BAMM that
I could download?  Also what are the most popular rifle and calibers used?  There is a local gun show coming up on May 18-19 that I will  check out.
Title: Re: BAMM
Post by: Happy Jack on May 08, 2019, 10:21:23 AM
Blaze,  Goatneck Clem wrote the rules so he is the expert on legal firearms. Garrison Joe is very active with it in NM. I am sure somer of the active shooters will chime in soon.
Title: Re: BAMM
Post by: lostvaquero on May 08, 2019, 11:05:52 AM
03 seems to be popular.  Mauser probably right up there as well.
I picked up a Swiss K31.  Most have seen little use. 
The gun Smith checked mine and asked if it had even bern fired the action and barrel was so pristine.
He also said the lock up was tighter than some of the new bolt guns.
Swiss built them like their watches and they were not under war time pressure and restrictions.
Brass is not as easy to find asb 8mm or 30-06.  K31 though takes same bullet size as 30-06 So makes it easy.
Title: Re: BAMM
Post by: DUSTY BODDAMS on May 08, 2019, 12:24:59 PM
K31 has been called the rolls Royce of mil surp guns due to build quality. It’s built to such close tolerance that hand loads must be absolute best quality to function 100%. 03a3 would be the most popular along with the 1903 Springfield. All the mausers based on 98 action are great for BAMM yugo 24,24/47 and model 48 represent a good quality accurate reliable rifle at less than half the cost of a comparable 03. These mausers are all 8mm and easy to loadfor and get brass. Bullets that are hitek coated and g.c. Are a phone call away. Remember that it’s got to be original issue type rifle on outside to be legal, no sporterized stocks and must have as issued battle sights. Buy the best bore you can get your hands on! Remember a polished turd is a turd that’s polished! Look over all the old bolt guns and it will boil down to this for foreign rifles,do you like a straight bolt or a bent bolt better? All the mauser sights are about the same with minor differences. Question on the 03 or 03a3 will be do you like a barrel or a peep sight? Another option are the argentine rifles in 7.65 x53 again easy to load for uses a .312 bullet,brass is easy as it can be bought or simple to make from 8mm.  Whatever your buying buy on condition.  Welcome to BAMM! Dusty B
Title: Re: BAMM
Post by: C.N. Double on May 08, 2019, 04:00:08 PM
Howdy Blaze -- There isn't much formal literature on BAMM, but there are a lot of good threads here discussing stage planning, etc. Here is what the SHB says (p17):
"The  rifle  must  be  an  original  caliber  bolt-action  rifle  issued  by  any  country  to  its military  forces  through  the  end  of  WWII.    It  must  be  as  issued  with  original  iron battle  sights  and  NO  external  modifications.  Internal  modifications  are  allowed.  Faithful reproductions are allowed."

The matches I've shot have been very flexible. You don't necessarily need 100yd+ range -- you can just use smaller targets, shoot offhand, etc. -- whatever it takes to shoot a match!

Here's an example course of fire from the Western Territorial a couple of weeks ago:
- Two untimed sighter shots allowed
- Four targets at 75, 100, 125, and 150yds
- From seated/supported position, load five rounds with bolt open.
1. ATB, starting on 125yd target, alternate between it and 150yd target for 5 rounds
2. Move to standing (offhand or supported) position and reload.
3. Starting on 75yd target, alternate on it and 100yd target for 5 rounds.
4. Smile because it was so much fun (I did it three times).

If you are thinking about an 03a3, you are always welcome to handle and shoot mine. I'm hoping with reduced loads (<1600fps) we'll be able to put a regular local match together soon.
Title: Re: BAMM
Post by: Blaze Kinkaid 253 on May 08, 2019, 08:43:45 PM
Thanks pards for the info input.  Its been invaluable
Title: Re: BAMM
Post by: lostvaquero on May 08, 2019, 11:23:52 PM
You are welcome to try my k31 as well but earliest will be 18th LV match.

If you go to the show might want to keep an eye out for a 1903/05 pocket or similar.  Trying to get interest in POP or POcket Pistol wild bunch style.  Those little pistols turn of the century to about WW1 design.  I will bring my 1903 if you want to try that as well.
Title: Re: BAMM
Post by: DUSTY BODDAMS on May 09, 2019, 07:41:13 AM
LV,we have shot 2 pop gun side matches and I’ve gotta say these things are a lotta fun! Last match
We based the stage on 7 rounds sitting in chair,pistol in hand. From about 6 to 7 yards at the beep engage small autoreset target then engage the 6 static targets. We did this a few times and it was really entertaining. Dusty
Title: Re: BAMM
Post by: trooper on June 03, 2019, 02:22:21 AM
We are slowly getting BAMM going Down Under too....    Had 2 matches so far as part of State WB matches and as you folks might have guessed the most common rifles used here (so far) are of course the Lee-Enfields.  We've seen early WW1 vintage No 1 Mk III's, right up to late war No 4 Mk Is...  along with Mosin- Nagants, Mausers and a sole O3-A3 (they are scarce and $$$$$$$$$$  down here unfortunately)

Those of you who know me won't be surprised to know I've been looking for something...different.  Would love a K-31 (or a Krag) but availability here is very poor...  what I DID find is perhaps a LITTLE more different than I was intending.    An M1895 Steyr Infantry Rifle.   1917 manufacture.    Straight pull.  Uses Mannlicher style en bloc clips.  8 x 56R...which uses an odd 329/330 projectile - which fortunately ARE available.    Looking forward to seeing how this 102 year old Austro-Hungarian Army issue rifle goes on the range...  fingers crossed.

As an aside , while I was shooting a Mosin at our last match a thought occurred to me...   

Just HOW  unlikely is it that a rifle built at the Tula Arsenal (200 kilometres south of Moscow) 1928.. would end up being used at a shooting match - in Australia - based on a Movie set in 1913 Mexico?   (Yep..I do have too much time on my hands!!!)

Title: Re: BAMM
Post by: DUSTY BODDAMS on June 03, 2019, 06:58:20 AM
Trooper, great news to hear BAMM is down under! The steyr 1895 should prove interesting. I see no reason why it wouldn’t make a great BAMM rifle. I would think the biggest challenge is brass but I’ve read that brass can be built off of mosin brass. I think the rim is way thicker on the steyer because it seems like what I read it had to be head spaced on the shoulder to work. I think 450 basic would be the same way. PPU might make brass? Keep us posted on this! We would like to hear the trials and tribulations! Dusty Boddams
Title: Re: BAMM
Post by: trooper on June 04, 2019, 03:08:47 AM
Will do!   The rifle is coming with about 70 cases... 100 projectiles...3 Mannlicher clips...and dies.   So I can make a good start there.....The barrel condition is of course the big question.  no matter how good it might LOOK the proof is, as always, in the shooting.   Still... this will be an interesting experiment....   
Title: Re: BAMM
Post by: trooper on July 12, 2019, 05:57:29 PM
Well....  I now have the 95 Steyr...and have shot it.     Man.. did I get lucky.   It looks like a refurb...wood and bluing are very nice indeed (but stamped serial numbers on the wood are still very clear....)   Rifling looks crisp and sharp and... TBH?  Pretty much unused.

Receiver/barrel and stock have matching numbers... bolt and upper handguard do not.  Can't say i'm at all surprised. 

Sights and trigger are what you would expect on a rifle from that era... (im hoping the trigger can be improved..we will see!)   Accuracy is fine with jacketed. Waiting on some lead pills to try...  I tried the "% of case capacity" Trail Boss loads but couldn't get above about 1300 fps.  So a bit more research was done  and Im using the local "AR2209" which is pretty much an analogue of 4350.   

FOUR clips came with it...a little bonus.. and Wow!  What a great system!   On the fifth round there is a little "ping" and the clip falls out the bottom... as advertised.  Loading a clip is smooth and easy.    If you get the feeling Im impressed you are absolutely correct!     Being the Infantry Rifle it is quite long... a 30.5" barrel will do that....  but it handles pretty well.    I suspect I will haul it over there before too long...and join the fun...

An old CAS friend saw my photos of this rifle and revealed he had TWO of the 1912 Steyr pistols...  Because he's a good bloke he agreed to sell me one to "round out" my Austro-Hungarian combat          Sitting out the 28 day waiting period on that right now.... sigh.
Title: Re: BAMM
Post by: trooper on July 12, 2019, 06:07:46 PM
The pistol is a Chilean contract may well be marked as a "1911"... that would be amusing.    9mm Steyr , fixed 8 round mag in the butt loaded with stripper clips.    This may well be the easiest obsolete handgun to actually shoot.... why?

1.  Starline makes 9mm  Steyr brass (!!!!)  and in any case it is almost dimensionally identical to 38 Super Comp
2. 38 Super dies reportedly work just fine
3. Stripper clips?  LOL....  Rim diameter of 9mm Steyr is .382  -   And 5.56 rim diameter is .378.  Yes.. M16 stripper clips reportedly work!   How cool is that?

Do we have a "Foreign guns" side match for WB? 
Title: Re: BAMM
Post by: lostvaquero on July 13, 2019, 12:39:10 AM

Btw got to range test my K31 with lead bullets on the 100 meter target.  Spotter said middle of the chest hits as long as I did my part. 

Think we are going to have a BAMM or at least mini one in August.  Kinda stoked for it but considering be up against CN Double and Gilly be taking up the rear but who cares should be fun.

Those two might be bringing their Garands. 
Title: Re: BAMM
Post by: Grouchy Spike on October 21, 2019, 10:04:41 AM
BK,  Another way to structure your matches, both BAMM and GAMM is to design two scenarios, one as sniper match shooting seated and rested with five or six targets from 75 to 125 yards;  and close combat match standing (with sling if desired) at targets about 60 yards.  Distances depend on available range space.  Smaller targets for shorter ranges. 

How many rounds?  For BAMM sniper you can shoot from 15 to 25 rounds depending on time available.  GAMM from 8 , up to 24 if reloads on the clock are allowed and time is available.  If reloads on the clock are NOT allowed, record the time for each 8-rd clip, add them together for a total.

For BAMM  close combat you can shoot from 10 to 15. GAMM from 8 to 16 if reloads on the clock are allowed and time is available.  If reloads on the clock are NOT allowed, record the time for each clip, add them together for a total.. 

Targets for sniper are 16" squares from 75 to 100 yds, with the 125 yd target at 20h" x 15w".  For close combat the targets are about 20"h x 15"h.

For those of us who forget to breathe while shooting, the sniper match at 25 rounds is exhilarating! 

The GAMM shooters want to shoot more rounds than the BAMM shooters!

Garands require a minimum amount of gas  to cycle, so velocities are up to about 1800 fps with a 170 gr bullet.  In my experience Bolt action rifles, in 30-06 or 7.5 Swiss for sure, can run as low as 1100 fps for targets inside 100 yds, maybe 1500+ fps for longer distances, both with 170 gr bullets.

The K31 is fast, and when shot rested by a southpaw is extremely fast - left hand on the pistol grip and right hand on the bolt handle.
Title: Re: BAMM
Post by: Baltimoreed11754 on October 31, 2019, 04:51:58 PM
We sre supposed to do a BAMM next month at our monthly match. We will run it along with a cas match so pistol and sg targets/order will be the same for everyone while the bamm guys will engage different smaller rifle targets as we don’t have a very deep berm to shoot in. If I shoot my Krag I’ll use DA revolvers, if I use my 1903 I’ll use my 1911.
Title: Re: BAMM
Post by: DUSTY BODDAMS on October 31, 2019, 05:38:53 PM
That’s what we call Doughboy when we use a pistol or/and shotgun in the same stage. Whole lotta fun!
Title: Re: BAMM
Post by: Baltimoreed11754 on November 26, 2019, 08:05:32 AM
We had our BAM match. 4 cowboys and cowgirls and 10 boltgunners. Cold grey day with rain starting after 4 1/2 stages so we quit early. I used my 03 Springfield, M12 and 1911. That 10 rd gamer British gun was prevalent with mausers next, there was an 03-A3 and Krag carbine. I ran my 03 mad minute style with my middle finger pulling the trigger while holding the bolt with thumb and index finger. The club was running a turkey shoot so we all walked next berm and tried it. Probably the only time in history that a m12 trench gun was used in a turkey shoot. I didn’t think to mount the bayonet. The guy that I loaned my old 97 to won a turkey on our relay. And came in first for the match. A good time.
Title: Re: BAMM
Post by: Grouchy Spike on November 30, 2019, 04:35:32 AM
Congratulations, Nice turn out there! 
Title: Re: BAMM
Post by: Three Foot Johnson on December 13, 2019, 09:56:05 PM
I don't think there is a "most popular rifle", like the '73 is for CAS.
I use an 1891 Argentine Mauser in 7.65x53 and an SMLE No. 1 Mk III in .303 British.
Title: Re: BAMM
Post by: Garrison Joe on December 14, 2019, 09:37:47 AM
That 10 rd gamer British gun was prevalent

If you allow loading the magazine only with 5 rounds at a time, that "levels the reloading process" for most military bolt guns.

Good luck, GJ
Title: Re: BAMM
Post by: lostvaquero on December 14, 2019, 09:55:22 PM
The slightly higher velocity puts it right in there for 1907 as well.  Not played with a model 8 since I do not have one.  Both to me more or less fit in with Gamm wnd certainly more WB era that is why I call them SAMM