Author Topic: 45LC overall length with Trail Boss  (Read 879 times)

Billptc

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45LC overall length with Trail Boss
« on: December 07, 2017, 09:42:44 PM »
Posted on other Forum, will try on this one. Can you load 45LC using normal cowboy load of Trail Boss and still achieve overall length down to 1.55 without compressing this powder??  Trail Boss load data site shows COL as 1.6, My Pioneer Gunworks '73 says to keep overall length between 1.44 and 1.56 for the short stroke.
Major Bill

Grouchy Spike

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Re: 45LC overall length with Trail Boss
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2017, 08:41:26 AM »
Would not the COL would be determined by the bullet weight and the location of the crimp groove?

Hodgdon's website shows that a 180 gr RNFP would have a COL of 1.540 but apparently that's not the bullet I'm using.

I load a 180 gr RNFP with 6.0 TB and a COL of 1.566, crimping into that bullets crimp groove.  To load a shorter round I'd look for a different design or a lower bullet weight.
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Garrison Joe

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Re: 45LC overall length with Trail Boss
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2017, 09:01:40 AM »
Well, we gave you some real good advice on the SASS Wire.   :o

But, why don't you just throw a load of Trail Boss like you want to load, into a dead-primer case.    Then hold one of your slugs up next to that case with the case mouth level with where you want to crimp the slug.  If the powder level is higher than where the bottom of the slug is, then, yes you would have some compression.    Once you do that you will know for certain!  And you will have done it your own self.  I could do it but I don't own (have never bought) Trail Boss, and I don't have one of your bullets to test with!

1.  I REALLY doubt you need to drop to 1.560 overall length to get ammo to run in your gun.  My Pioneer short stroked 73 runs any ammo that fits in the carrier shaft - right up to 1.600 OAL.  A couple three dummy rounds made with just case and slug would tell you REAL quick (less than 5 minutes work and testing), then you can knock out the slug with a bullet puller and reload case like normal.

2.  Trail Boss, like most other smokeless powders, can be compressed a little bit without raising pressures dangerously.  Unless you are trying to load at the VERY TOP END of MAX LOADS, a 20 thousandths deeper seating depth of the bullet is not going to blow up a gun.   You sure don't need to have anything like a MAX 45 Colt load to shoot either cowboy or Wild Bunch!  So stay at a moderate load that makes about 165-185 power factor in your rifle and you have PLENTY of Trail Boss for our games.   

3.  And if you ARE trying to load a hot load (above SAAMI pressure levels) don't do it in a 73 that has an expensive short stroke kit in it.  Get a 92 or even a clunky 94 that was (somewhat) made by the factory to handle 45 Colt cartridges.  THOSE guns will handle pressures up well over what a 73 will take.

From your line of questions, I would suppose you haven't done a lot of reloading, especially with cast bullets to make low velocity loads.  Can I suggest you get and read the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook?  It will tell you info you didn't even know you needed to know.   ;)

Good luck, GJ
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 09:13:11 AM by Garrison Joe »
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Billptc

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Re: 45LC overall length with Trail Boss
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2017, 12:16:55 PM »
You are correct. I have no experience in loading even though I have been CAS shooting for 5 years. Preparing to BUY a reloader and ammo components. Therefore, I can not test the powder in brass. I would be using round flat point lead bullets with roll crimp. Shot rifle with bought 1.573 rounds and it was not smooth. Tried 1.55 rounds and it was smooth. This was verified with Pioneer Gunworks tech. Do not want hot loads, just what will work with low recoil and clean burn as possible.
The advice on other forum was good But was looking for someone that has used Trail Boss in 45LC that had COL down to 1.55 because I have no components to test yet. Otherwise will have to look for another type powder and/or bullet to purchase. Because I have already purchased a '73 from Pioneer Gunworks customized and short stroked I plan on using their advice and experience with the ammo.
Again thanks for all input.
Major Bill

Garrison Joe

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Re: 45LC overall length with Trail Boss
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2017, 05:16:58 PM »
Now that you have explained a lot more.

There is ALMOST no way that you will have a problem with mild Cowboy and even (moderate) Wild Bunch loads with Trail Boss powder with any commercial bullet loaded to 1.55" instead of 1.58" 

Trail Boss is an expensive powder to use.   Red Dot would be easily available and quite a bit cheaper.   Or Clays.   Both cheaper by quite a bit, and still have a large enough volume to see powder levels in the case. 

You will still need that Lyman Cast Bullet handbook on your loading shelf.

And you do not even need any loading equipment except a powder scale or set of Lee dippers to do the powder height test I laid out for you.

You WILL need a fairly short nose bullet to hold length as short as you are planning.  A short-nose RNFP may be the only way you get a length down to 1.550".   MY 200 grain TC bullets I would not be able to load to much under 1.570" because the nose is too long.  In other words, DO NOT buy a ton of reloading components UNTIL you (or a friend of yours) can load some test rounds to check for BOTH compatible OAL and a mild to moderate load that shoots well from your gun.  Winter is when shooters often have extra time to try out new loads (even if you have to brave the elements to shoot 'em)!

Good luck, GJ
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 05:23:25 PM by Garrison Joe »
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J. Frank Norfleet

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Re: 45LC overall length with Trail Boss
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2017, 08:05:03 PM »
Short answer: no Trail Boss does not even come close to filling the case. I can reach power factor with a 200 gr RNFP and the powder in the case is about half way up to the bottom of the bullet. That is why I shoot TB in my rifle. At least I can see there is powder in the case. GJ doesn't like TB; I do. We don't shoot that many rifle rounds so I am more comfortable loading TB in a rifle where I can catch a double charge. I shoot a couple jugs of Red Dot through my pistol each year because it is cheap but Trail Boss in my rifles. It fits my program and not his, no biggie.

My rifle shoots 45 Schofields. They are .18" shorter than 45 Colts. That might be the answer to your length problem. if not trim your Colt brass to the length you need and load them.

Reloading is a whole new learning curve. My advice is buy a case gauge. If it doesn't drop in and fall out; it probably won't shoot.
JFN
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Billptc

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Re: 45LC overall length with Trail Boss
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2017, 01:00:26 PM »
Thanks both of you for detailed info. This is a new game to me. Trying to get info prior to getting equipment and components. 45LC is for rifle in wild bunch. Use 38SP for pistol and rifle in CAS. Lucky on rifle length because Widowmaker customized my Marlin 94CB carrier to use all different 38SP lenghts.
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lostvaquero

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Re: 45LC overall length with Trail Boss
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2017, 10:10:36 AM »
Short answer: no Trail Boss does not even come close to filling the case. I can reach power factor with a 200 gr RNFP and the powder in the case is about half way up to the bottom of the bullet. That is why I shoot TB in my rifle. At least I can see there is powder in the case. GJ doesn't like TB; I do. We don't shoot that many rifle rounds so I am more comfortable loading TB in a rifle where I can catch a double charge. I shoot a couple jugs of Red Dot through my pistol each year because it is cheap but Trail Boss in my rifles. It fits my program and not his, no biggie.

My rifle shoots 45 Schofields. They are .18" shorter than 45 Colts. That might be the answer to your length problem. if not trim your Colt brass to the length you need and load them.

Reloading is a whole new learning curve. My advice is buy a case gauge. If it doesn't drop in and fall out; it probably won't shoot.
JFN

I  use TB in 45LC as well (and 45acp and my regular 38 Cowboy loads).  As stated, in 45 Colt not a problem with compression.  Considering my load with TB in 38 special works just right for 45acp with 230g, I have been looking using 45 Cowboy Special in the rifle.  Yes, lazy in that if I can get one setting for everything, but then less adjusting and having something to amiss.  TB might be more expensive but no way to double charge, cases will overflow which one reason I like it.

J. Frank Norfleet

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Re: 45LC overall length with Trail Boss
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2017, 07:03:08 AM »
45 Cowboy Special would drive me crazy. It is too close to 45 ACP and would make sorting the brass a nightmare. I know some shoot it because I came home from EoT with one in my brass.
JFN
"Pilgrim, life is hard - It's a lot harder when you're stupid."  Marion Mitchell Morrison

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein