Author Topic: When to make call on moving with slide forward.  (Read 861 times)

Tully Mars

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When to make call on moving with slide forward.
« on: February 07, 2018, 07:22:33 AM »
With the new rules change in regards to moving with the slide forward penalty, when is the appropriate time to make that call? In the past it was a SDQ so stopping the shooter immediately was appropriate. However if we now stop a shooter and the gun is empty we've now penalized that shooter additional time on top of the 10 second MSV.

I'm assuming it's appropriate if the TO counts 7 shots and see's the shooter move with the slide forward, to wait until the next magazine is inserted and the slide racked to make the determination on the call? MSV stay quite till the end of the stage, SDQ stop the shooter then?

If the TO is not able to keep up with the shooter and be right there when the slide is racked, is a live round on the ground sufficient to make the call? Some shooters move very fast.

Thanks,

Tully

 

August West

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Re: When to make call on moving with slide forward.
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2018, 08:44:12 AM »
Null
« Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 10:28:22 AM by August West »

Tully Mars

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Re: When to make call on moving with slide forward.
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2018, 08:55:15 AM »
August my understanding is it's a penalty either way. Round in chamber = SDQ, empty chamber = MSV.

I do not want to stop someone who has an empty chamber an add time to their penalty. Just looking for the correct way to make this call.

See you soon!

Garrison Joe

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Re: When to make call on moving with slide forward.
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2018, 09:57:22 AM »
TM -

I too have concerns about when to call.  I'm probably going to take the route of stay quiet regardless of what I THINK the gun condition is, until shooter stops at next position.   Then watch to see what pops out when the slide gets racked.

If a live round comes out upon racking, well, SDQ called then. 

If no round, remember a Minor Safety that will be given at end of string.   No way for shooter to correct it during stage, once he takes steps.   So no need to call anything out loud for the MSV until the end.

Don't just look down to see if a live round is on ground to tell difference between the SDQ and MSV call.  It could well have popped off the top of a magazine being drawn from holster and loaded.

And, unfortunately, the spotters probably will rarely be able to help the TO to make the call.  It will all hinge on the TO's ability to position himself to the right side of shooter as the shooter comes to a stop, and to be WATCHING the gun as slide is racked.   

Now, we will also want to speak up if shooter lays down the 1911 with slide forward.   Shooter has until next gun fired to correct that.  A verbal warning would help shooter avoid a MSV for having re-staged an empty 1911 with slide closed.

I believe we will find this (TO seeing the slide rack clearly) to be a hard thing to do when RO'ing high speed shooters and when dodging around props.  WR will make a good  proving ground.   ;)    (Wish it had been put together with simplicity for shooter and TO in mind.)

If a TO does make a SDQ call out loud and realizes that was a bad call, do not be afraid to (ask for ability to give reshoot, which major matches are requiring, and then) give the reshoot for having interfered with the run.

Good luck, GJ
« Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 10:08:08 AM by Garrison Joe »
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August West

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Re: When to make call on moving with slide forward.
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2018, 10:10:33 AM »
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« Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 10:27:30 AM by August West »

Tully Mars

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Re: When to make call on moving with slide forward.
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2018, 10:19:39 AM »
GJ,

I agree and will make the call on behalf of the shooter if I'm not right there and 100% positive of what I see, unless directed differently well before WR. You and I both know how difficult it could be to keep up with some of our shooters. It otherwise becomes to subjective, just like spotters saying "I think"! Nothing worse than someone voicing those words unless it's to the benefit of the shooter. We all see things differently at times, but once "I think" is voiced everyone starts to question what they themselves saw.

Thanks, See you soon!


Tully


August West, Lets start another page about your questions so we don't confuse the issues. TM
« Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 10:26:33 AM by Tully Mars »

Tully Mars

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Re: When to make call on moving with slide forward.
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2018, 05:57:26 PM »
GJ,

Not so much keeping up, but being in the proper position to actually see the slide being racked. I'm speaking of moving out of props and forward to another position, such as what we'll have at WR. Some of those buildings aren't suited for having a spotter in position either.

Maybe I'm overthinking it?

Tully

Garrison Joe

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Re: When to make call on moving with slide forward.
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2018, 09:08:05 PM »
TM -
No, I'm going to guess it will be hard for us to stay in a proper position to see the slide racking, if it happens.  Especially since we have not really been practicing doing that and watching closely, since racking has not been part of the standard drill before (only on recovery from failure to lock back).

As I say, this year will be one of testing the waters on the new rules.

GJ 
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Legendary Lawman

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Re: When to make call on moving with slide forward.
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2018, 10:51:02 PM »
Hi TM and GJ

Your discussion has pretty well covered the issues.  The RO has to be on the ball and make a decision.  While, theoretically, the same problem can happen with a long gun, the pistol is different in that we do a lot more shooting from two or more positions with the pistol and it is much harder to see its condition.

So far we have not seen any problems.  Fire and Ice on Friday may be a good test.

I guess we will all do our best and see how it plays out.

Thanks you guys for a great discussion.

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Allie Mo

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Re: When to make call on moving with slide forward.
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2018, 12:01:18 PM »
OMG!

These changes are overwhelming to me. I haven't touched my 1911 since August and signed up for State next month.

I hope my question makes sense or is reasonable based on the rule change. If my slide doesn't stay open, is it okay to open it before moving as I would have with the old rule?

Thank you,

Allie
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Boggus Deal

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Re: When to make call on moving with slide forward.
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2018, 12:43:58 PM »
Allie, actually the rules are quite simple. They give the shooter much more freedom than restriction. Please feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions!

Garrison Joe

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Re: When to make call on moving with slide forward.
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2018, 04:42:17 PM »
If my slide doesn't stay open, is it okay to open it before moving as I would have with the old rule?

Yep.   To avoid penalties of any sort, have the slide locked open (not held open) when you move.

Good luck, GJ
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 07:08:57 PM by Garrison Joe »
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Allie Mo

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Re: When to make call on moving with slide forward.
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2018, 08:14:30 PM »
Thanks Boggus and Joe!
"If you would know a man, observe how he treats a cat." - Robert A. Heinlein