Author Topic: Model 12 with heat shield and bayonet  (Read 569 times)

HPH

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Model 12 with heat shield and bayonet
« on: April 24, 2018, 06:03:16 PM »
Subject pretty much asks the question. Is Model 12 with heat shield and bayonet lug legal for Wild Bunch? Thanks for answering.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 06:43:15 PM by HPH »

Sgt. John Campbell

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Re: Model 12 with heat shield and bayonet
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2018, 07:48:40 PM »
Simple answer, no
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Garrison Joe

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Re: Model 12 with heat shield and bayonet
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2018, 09:51:57 PM »
Believe the heat shield is fine, IF it appears to have been originally installed by factory or military unit.   Four years ago the same question was answered with:
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Adding a heat shield to a shotgun that did NOT come from the factory with one would be an External Modification.

A bayonet is not allowed on any of our guns during matches, however. 

Since the rules explicitly state a military style 97 is fine:

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Winchester 1897 pump in 12 gauge, original or replica—Civilian or Military style. 

I would expect the same would apply with a Mod 12 heat shielded military variant if it was issued with that shield. 

You would never gain any advantage with a heat shield over the barrel.

Good luck, GJ
« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 10:01:18 PM by Garrison Joe »
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HPH

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Re: Model 12 with heat shield and bayonet
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2018, 06:47:14 PM »
Sorry meant bayonet lug.  So yes or no on heat sheild.

Garrison Joe

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Re: Model 12 with heat shield and bayonet
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2018, 10:12:28 PM »
?  !

Even more simply this time, heat shield is ok if it was original on gun, as the gun was issued.  If you or some other person added it after gun left factory, it's an illegal external modification.  If it's on a civilian marked 12, its PROBABLY not factory installed.

Bayonet LUG is ok.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 10:17:10 PM by Garrison Joe »
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HPH

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Re: Model 12 with heat shield and bayonet
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2018, 06:28:54 PM »
Ok . Thanks for responses. Appreciate it.

Baltimoreed11754

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Re: Model 12 with heat shield and bayonet
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2018, 12:08:04 PM »
Hey guys, while I’ve been a member of sass for a right long time, sass#11754, it’s been years since I’ve posted anything on their forum. I don’t shoot my vaqueros much anymore or attend state or regionals since my wife had her stroke 12 years ago. I still shoot cas at ECSASS in Dare Co, NC every month but we are a sass/wasa club and practice both cas doctrines. I stumbled up on your forum awhile back but have finally joined today. Sorry that it’s old but this thread has got my goat and I’ve got to make some sort of reply. How the heck can the military 97 be ok but the military M12 not be? Especially when Kimbers, Springfields, etc and all the other hotrodded 1911s are legal in a shooting sport based on a movie that used gi 1911/1911a1’s? WB is not even loosely based on the movie though it should be but why ban the military m12 but not the civilian one?

Garrison Joe

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Re: Model 12 with heat shield and bayonet
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2018, 03:05:55 PM »
Baltimore -

Believe you read the answers incorrectly.  A military-issued Model 12 is fine, and it may have the heat shield and bayonet lug.  You just can't hang a bayonet on it during the match.

A civilian M12 is not to be externally modified, except where a modification is called out in the rules as allowed.  Like any other firearm we use in Wild Bunch (or Cowboy shooting). Adding a heat shield or bayonet lug is included in the many modifications that are not allowed.

Why are you wound up about this? 

Good luck, GJ

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Baltimoreed11754

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Re: Model 12 with heat shield and bayonet
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2018, 04:09:11 PM »
Hey Joe, I just don’t see the logic with the heat shield bayonet lug being an illegal aftermarket mod  on a cut civilian M12 sg. We cut sg bbls all the time in this sport, probably 95% are cut. Given the high price of original military 97’s and M12s being even rarer yet and with Norinco TGs not even being imported anymore we would never has access to the military style sg unless we build them ourselves. The military mods [shields, lugs and slings] are purely esthetic and don’t give the shooter any kind of an edge in fact they probably slow him down as compared to the guy running a civilian gun but the tricked out 1911s and belt rigs are ok and definitely do help the shooter. Of course I understand I’m talking different 1911 handgun classes but mods are mods. I would be cool with rules against gamer mods but a rule against something purely esthetic is ridiculous. And given the ‘modern’ WB category to say that any mod is esthetically incorrect is silly.

Garrison Joe

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Re: Model 12 with heat shield and bayonet
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2018, 05:45:20 PM »
Think you will need to discuss the rule with WB rules committee, not me.   Not all rules always make sense from every shooter's point of view.   But we've been doing real well with the rules we've had.    There's a ton of variant-gun rules that could have been written, but they saw the wisdom of trying to keep the rule set simple and the gun selection process pretty simple, and the "race mods" to a minimum.  Thus my guess is they took the same approach on external mods that the Cowboy rules have, even for mods that don't make much competitive difference.

I've seen the rules committee always open to a constructive discussion, though.   Try it and see, if you think it's important.  Get out and get active shooting.  I'm pretty sure suggestions carry more weight if you have been shooting actively, widely and recently.

Good luck, GJ


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