Author Topic: Does anyone else think the Wild Bunch scoring system sucks or is it just me?  (Read 930 times)

lostvaquero

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"I do like the scoring system, it makes the sport much more competitive than total time. Stage Points keeps a top shooter in the game even when they get a stage DQ. I can't tell you how many matches I have seen good shooters win even though they had a stage DQ. That means that they shot well enough on 11 stages to beat shooters that had scores on 12 stages. Total time knocks the shooter with a DQ out."

TO me that right there is why total time.  If you screwed up bad enough to DQ, does not matter how well you did on the rest.  By the system in place if you DQ on a stage then burn down the rest covers the fact you did something grevious enough to get a stage DQ.  In TT it reinforces the fact you did and hopefully the next time be a little more vigilant.  Sure we all, or mostly all of us screw up but again my thinking is TT hopefully keeps you on your toes instead of thinking alright bad stage I can make this up and not getting that reinforcement.  I am not sure that I completely agree with keeps the sport more competitive.  I think the competition is there no matter which scoring is used.  As the system is now, sure helps a shooter keep in the running and I can see where you are coming from but again rules in place that result say a DQ are there for a reason and reinforcing that seems better to me.

My worthless 2 cents as never going to be a top competitor just out to have some safe fun with good people because with either system be bringing home the light on the caboose.

Abilene

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Well I agree with Flash, if I am understanding what he is saying.  Whether for CAS or WBAS, some of the clubs I shoot with list scores with just the times and places, no info for misses or P's.  Other clubs have multiple files to pick from - one will be overall times and places only and another says "detail" and gives just that.  I even like it when the file shows rank points, even if the club does not use them for scoring.  Makes it easier to compare how I did on each stage to others.  For example the Wild Bunch (4-stage "side match") match last weekend at Comancheria Days (no rank points listed but does show penalties):

Overall (simplified) score sheet: http://texicanrangers.org//uploads/Events/Comancheria%20Days/SASS%20TX%20State%20Wild%20Bunch%20Match%20Final%202019.pdf

Details score sheet: http://texicanrangers.org//uploads/Events/Comancheria%20Days/SASS%20TX%20State%20Wild%20Bunch%20Match%20Final%20Detail%202019.pdf

By the way, I accomplished my goal of placing in the top half of my category (barely), 7th out of 15 Traditional  :)
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 02:16:35 PM by Abilene »

Flash

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Well I agree with Flash, if I am understanding what he is saying.  Whether for CAS or WBAS, some of the clubs I shoot with list scores with just the times and places, no info for misses or P's.  Other clubs have multiple files to pick from - one will be overall times and places only and another says "detail" and gives just that.  I even like it when the file shows rank points, even if the club does not use them for scoring.  Makes it easier to compare how I did on each stage to others.
Yes exactly what I am getting at!  :)
Only thing is it looks like you guys used total time?
The regular way Wild Bunch is scored all you would have is a bunch of % values.
Started CAS in 2012, WBAS in 2014 & have been to EOT twice & Winter Range once. Jedi Gunfighter #219 Have never shot any CA category but Gunfighter and any WB category but Traditional. In 2015 got top ten buckle Winter Range Senior Gunfighter & top ten at EOT Sen. Gunfighter & WB Traditional

VICIOUS

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HI Gang; So is what you really want is to  see the misses and P, and stage DQ. All spelled out for each stage, regardless of the scoring system?

Flash

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HI Gang; So is what you really want is to  see the misses and P, and stage DQ. All spelled out for each stage, regardless of the scoring system?
That is a big 10-4
Started CAS in 2012, WBAS in 2014 & have been to EOT twice & Winter Range once. Jedi Gunfighter #219 Have never shot any CA category but Gunfighter and any WB category but Traditional. In 2015 got top ten buckle Winter Range Senior Gunfighter & top ten at EOT Sen. Gunfighter & WB Traditional

Flash

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HI Gang; So is what you really want is to  see the misses and P, and stage DQ. All spelled out for each stage, regardless of the scoring system?
That is a big 10-4
Here is an example of a side match in 2014. What does this tell you other than who was first or second?
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 06:59:59 PM by Flash »
Started CAS in 2012, WBAS in 2014 & have been to EOT twice & Winter Range once. Jedi Gunfighter #219 Have never shot any CA category but Gunfighter and any WB category but Traditional. In 2015 got top ten buckle Winter Range Senior Gunfighter & top ten at EOT Sen. Gunfighter & WB Traditional

Flash

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HI Gang; So is what you really want is to  see the misses and P, and stage DQ. All spelled out for each stage, regardless of the scoring system?
That is a big 10-4
Here is an example of a side match in 2014. What does this tell you other than who was first or second?
What do you think a perspective new Wild Bunch shooter thinks when he sees this score sheet. Do you think it makes him think he wants to join in or does he say what the F is this?
Started CAS in 2012, WBAS in 2014 & have been to EOT twice & Winter Range once. Jedi Gunfighter #219 Have never shot any CA category but Gunfighter and any WB category but Traditional. In 2015 got top ten buckle Winter Range Senior Gunfighter & top ten at EOT Sen. Gunfighter & WB Traditional

Flash

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I know it can be done. Here is another example. This was a match my club had in 2014, can you tell any difference?
Started CAS in 2012, WBAS in 2014 & have been to EOT twice & Winter Range once. Jedi Gunfighter #219 Have never shot any CA category but Gunfighter and any WB category but Traditional. In 2015 got top ten buckle Winter Range Senior Gunfighter & top ten at EOT Sen. Gunfighter & WB Traditional

Grouchy Spike

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FWIW, I agree with Flash and Abilene  - present the scores with Stage Points AND Total Time including misses and other penalties.  No objection to Stage Points.  Plenty of objection to presentation of Stage Points only! 
Run - Hide - Call?  Forget it !  Draw - Aim - Shoot

Last Chance

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Honestly if you have a stage dq and still win a match you deserve it. Theres no excuse as a top shooter wither thats overall or in your category to have somebody get 0 points on a stage and yet still win. It is pretty obvious that you shot so poorly that you didn't deserve to win in the first place. And id honestly be annoyed if misses, p's, safeties ect were listed for every single stage. the scoring list would have to be a small font with a ton of lines which doesnt work well for large matches. time and percentage would do just dandy. IF you want to know if joe shmo had misses on stage 5 why not just go up and ask him?
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Baltimoreed11754

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I don’t have a problem with total time or rank scoring. For a small monthly match total time works just fine and for a big state or regional rank scoring is ok but a stage dq should knock you out of any awards other than fastest stage awards. If you were moving so darn fast that you messed up bad enough to ‘win’ a stage dq I don’t care how fast you shot the other 9 stages. You didn’t earn a spot in the shootout imo.

Boggus Deal

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A stage dq is just that. A stage dq. Not a match dq. I believe the better thing to do, as we are trying, is to do away with stage dqs. It’s either serious enough to warrant a match dq or it’s a no call.
As to the scoring methods, if you want to see penalties go to the match director and ask. Usually, it is very simple for them to print that for you or email it to you.

Flash

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As to the scoring methods, if you want to see penalties go to the match director and ask. Usually, it is very simple for them to print that for you or email it to you.
And here we see one reason that this sport isn't growing. A simple thing that would let shooters see more about how the shooters perform in a match and are unwilling to do it. We had some new shooters at out last WB match. They don't see how what they did reflected on the score sheet. But again this is just my opinion.
Started CAS in 2012, WBAS in 2014 & have been to EOT twice & Winter Range once. Jedi Gunfighter #219 Have never shot any CA category but Gunfighter and any WB category but Traditional. In 2015 got top ten buckle Winter Range Senior Gunfighter & top ten at EOT Sen. Gunfighter & WB Traditional

Flash

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You know if I were not the guy that runs the shoots at my club I wouldn't even be bothering to call attention to this. I can deal with a score sheet that just says who won. That is all most people want to know right?

Trying to get new Wild Bunch shooters in our matches is hard enough but add in the fact that the new guys that are thinking about shooting see a score sheet that looks like a tax return just seem stupid to me. Just my opinion again.
Started CAS in 2012, WBAS in 2014 & have been to EOT twice & Winter Range once. Jedi Gunfighter #219 Have never shot any CA category but Gunfighter and any WB category but Traditional. In 2015 got top ten buckle Winter Range Senior Gunfighter & top ten at EOT Sen. Gunfighter & WB Traditional

Boggus Deal

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As to the scoring methods, if you want to see penalties go to the match director and ask. Usually, it is very simple for them to print that for you or email it to you.
And here we see one reason that this sport isn't growing. A simple thing that would let shooters see more about how the shooters perform in a match and are unwilling to do it. We had some new shooters at out last WB match. They don't see how what they did reflected on the score sheet. But again this is just my opinion.
Why did you hide the scores from them? If they want to see how they did, show them!
What exactly are you trying to get to here? One post, you’re complaining about the scoring system. In another, it’s match directors not show the minutiae of shooter’s performance. Then, you say your the match director not showing shoote’s scores.
And for most of us, it’s not all about winning or who won but the is a competition. Someone is going to be first and someone will be last. Of course, we could go like Cowboy is going. A category for everyone and a participation trophy for everyone who shows up. In that case, we may as well throw out the timer and the shooting and just give out the trophies at registration.