Author Topic: Whats the call  (Read 361 times)

HPH

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Whats the call
« on: June 06, 2019, 06:20:31 PM »
4 targets. Instructions are sweep pistol targets in a 4,3,3,4 sweep. Shooter has a misfeed. Gets confused and ends up putting 6 on last target instead of 4.
Ascessed a P. Was some discussion about the extra rounds fired being illegally acquired ammo and counted as misses?


Garrison Joe

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Re: Whats the call
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2019, 07:38:31 PM »
Good question!

This mistake is called "Overloaded Rounds That Are Fired" rather than illegally acquired ammo.

Page 26 of the Shooter's Handbook lays the penalty out pretty clearly:

Quote
The penalty for using “illegally acquired” ammunition (i.e., NOT carried to the
line/staged by the shooter in an approved manner) or overloaded rounds that
are fired will be a PROCEDURAL. Any targets hit using that ammo will be
scored as MISSES. NO adjustments will be made to the stage raw time.


So, IMHO, the call (by the rule book) should have been P plus two extra rounds that hit target #4 (2 five-second penalties) is P plus 10 seconds.  Even though the #4 target had been hit already four times with appropriate shots.

Now, this does seem rather overly-penalized, I agree.   If shooter had MISSED #4 target with two shots at the end of the string, having already hit #4 four times, rules would call for NO penalty "overloaded ammo hit target" penalty seconds, just the Procedural penalty.

Good luck, GJ
« Last Edit: June 06, 2019, 10:07:04 PM by Garrison Joe »
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Boggus Deal

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Re: Whats the call
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2019, 10:07:36 PM »
What that line, “Any targets hit with that ammunition will be scored as MISSES”, actually means is that if the shooter had used that extra ammo to complete the requirements of the stage, they would be called misses. In the case mentioned by the original poster, it would just be a Procedural and the time spent.

HPH

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Re: Whats the call
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2019, 05:11:58 PM »
My confusion is when does overloading come into play with the pistol? I understand about the rifle and shotgun.
Thanks so much for the answers.

Boggus Deal

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Re: Whats the call
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2019, 07:19:51 PM »
Only when using that ammo. By chance, you have a magazine that holds 8. You load 8 in and fire that round in the completion of the stage, then the penalty is earned.  In your original post, shooter did not “overload”. Absolutely nothing wrong with what they did to complete the stage, right up until they fired those two extra rounds. Had they stopped at the 14th round, dropped mag and cleared gun, there would not have been a penalty.
I hope that helps clear it up for you.

HPH

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Re: Whats the call
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2019, 07:32:44 PM »
Yes Sir. Thank you very much!

Abe E.S. Corpus

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Re: Whats the call
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2019, 03:04:32 PM »
Good discussion.

These situations are likely to arise with the pistol especially now that the rule limiting the number of rounds that can be loaded in a magazine has been eliminated.

Allie Mo

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Re: Whats the call
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2019, 10:07:12 AM »
Hi HPH,

Let me explain illegally acquired ammo as it could apply here. This would not be illegally acquired as the magazine was a legal instrument (unless it did not meet the definition of a legal magazine) to carry ammo to the line, hat bands with ammo loops are not a legal means to carry ammo. It the shooter loaded from his hat or an illegal magazine it would be illegally acquired.

Regards,

Allie
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Allie Mo

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Re: Whats the call
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2019, 10:11:08 AM »
Good discussion.

These situations are likely to arise with the pistol especially now that the rule limiting the number of rounds that can be loaded in a magazine has been eliminated.

Just a note, the rule was not eliminated; it was changed to the following. "Magazines must be standard length and cannot hold more than eight rounds."
"If you would know a man, observe how he treats a cat." - Robert A. Heinlein

Boomstick Bruce

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Re: Whats the call
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2019, 10:16:40 AM »
Only when using that ammo. By chance, you have a magazine that holds 8. You load 8 in and fire that round in the completion of the stage, then the penalty is earned.  In your original post, shooter did not “overload”. Absolutely nothing wrong with what they did to complete the stage, right up until they fired those two extra rounds. Had they stopped at the 14th round, dropped mag and cleared gun, there would not have been a penalty.
I hope that helps clear it up for you.

i was wondering on that myself.

at sundays WB match i had a misfeed and dropped the mag 3 rounds fell out, i put that mag back in, fired it dry and loaded another full mag in to finish but at the end of the string i had one in the chamber and 3 in the mag. dropped mag, cleared it and was assessed no penalty, which is what i couldn't understand. i thought for sure doing that was wrong.


Boggus Deal

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Re: Whats the call
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2019, 12:53:03 PM »
Boomstick, as long as didn’t move with a cocked, loaded gun or let it leave your hand, that’s a no call.