Author Topic: Loading 8 rounds in 1911 mags  (Read 244 times)

Bootless Bob

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Loading 8 rounds in 1911 mags
« on: September 12, 2019, 08:53:01 AM »
The sticky at the top says you can load 7 in the magazine but the 2019 handbook makes no mention of it that I can find.  So are we now free to load and shoot 8 round mags?

DUSTY BODDAMS

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Re: Loading 8 rounds in 1911 mags
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2019, 10:06:06 AM »
You can load and shoot 8 round mags with a flat bottom but you can only put 7 cartridges in them. ;D

Boggus Deal

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Re: Loading 8 rounds in 1911 mags
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2019, 10:58:20 AM »
Like with the rifle and shotgun, there is no penalty for overloading magazines. The penalties come with the use of the extra ammo or by leaving the ammo in the gun.

Bootless Bob

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Re: Loading 8 rounds in 1911 mags
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2019, 12:37:37 PM »
You can load and shoot 8 round mags with a flat bottom but you can only put 7 cartridges in them. ;D

That was my understanding but where in the SHB does it state that?  I searched the document and found nothing. 

Flash

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Re: Loading 8 rounds in 1911 mags
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2019, 12:50:37 PM »
You can load and shoot 8 round mags with a flat bottom but you can only put 7 cartridges in them. ;D

That was my understanding but where in the SHB does it state that?  I searched the document and found nothing.
It is in the pistol requirements starting on page 4.
Started CAS in 2012, WBAS in 2014 & have been to EOT twice & Winter Range once. Jedi Gunfighter #219 Have never shot any CA category but Gunfighter and any WB category but Traditional. In 2015 got top ten buckle Winter Range Senior Gunfighter & top ten at EOT Sen. Gunfighter & WB Traditional

Bootless Bob

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Re: Loading 8 rounds in 1911 mags
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2019, 02:12:38 PM »
You can load and shoot 8 round mags with a flat bottom but you can only put 7 cartridges in them. ;D

That was my understanding but where in the SHB does it state that?  I searched the document and found nothing.
It is in the pistol requirements starting on page 4.

I don't think there's a reference to loading 7 rounds any more in the 2019 rule book.  The 2018 handbook said on page 7 "Magazines shall be loaded with up to seven rounds only. A shooter may load LESS
than seven rounds in a magazine.", that is pretty clear.  In the 2019 handbook there is no mention of loading magazines. 

Abe E.S. Corpus

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Re: Loading 8 rounds in 1911 mags
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2019, 02:40:16 PM »
It is my understanding that as a result of the elimination of the rule that set a maximum number of rounds in a magazine that a shooter may load eight and use eight, even though pistol strings are patterned on multiples of eight. 

Assume the stage instructions call for a 14 round double tap sweep.  Under the 2018 rule, the shooter was limited to 7 rounds in a magazine.  Choices were to shoot seven, reload from slide lock and shoot seven, interrupting the double tap between rounds 7 and 8, or shoot six, perform a tactical reload and shoot eight.

I think the 2019 rules provide a third option:  load first magazine with eight rounds, shoot to slide lock, reload and shoot six.

Do I want to keep track of magazines loaded with different numbers of rounds?  Maybe not, but I think this would be legal under the 2019 SHB.

Legendary Lawman

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Re: Loading 8 rounds in 1911 mags
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2019, 12:07:26 PM »
 The WB Rules Committee has had a goal of trying to simplify the rules and particularly to reduce unnecessary penalties.  In 2019 the penalty for overloading a 1911 magazine was eliminated.  As Boggus Deal also stated, the shooter only earns a penalty if they shoot more than 7 rounds from a magazine.  Shooting an eighth round from the magazine would be “use of illegally acquired ammunition” for the eighth shot.

When the committee eliminated the overloading penalty, it was not realized that it needed to be replaced by a “rule” stating that you could only load 7 rounds in the magazine.  That sounds complicated in that there is a “rule” but no penalty for overloading (unless you use the overloaded round).  We already have that intent for the rifle.  However, the rifle is different because there is only one magazine.  Obviously, the rule book needs to have a clarification which will be posted by Happy Jack after review by the WB Rules Committee.

In the meantime, WB shoots should be governed by the posted rule that 1911 magazines will have 7 rounds.  Any overloaded round will not be a penalty unless it is used by the shooter.

Abe E.S. Corpus

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Re: Loading 8 rounds in 1911 mags
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2019, 01:18:03 PM »
I asked this question in December but I must not have phrased it clearly.

I am not advocating for the right to load eight rounds but if it is the intent of the Committee that an eighth round cannot be used without penalty a revision or clarification is needed.

Legendary Lawman

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Re: Loading 8 rounds in 1911 mags
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2019, 01:36:54 PM »
Abe
Totally agree with you.  Stay tuned :)

Boggus Deal

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Re: Loading 8 rounds in 1911 mags
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2019, 01:42:04 PM »
We are continually struggling to make the handbooks easier to understand and more precise!
« Last Edit: September 15, 2019, 07:18:43 PM by Boggus Deal »

Bootless Bob

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Re: Loading 8 rounds in 1911 mags
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2019, 01:42:40 PM »
Thank you for the clarification Legendary Lawman.  It was a very new shooter to our club who was diligently reading the rule book because she wanted to write a WB stage for the end of our CAS match (kind of a little side match).  She wanted to tell everyone to load 8 rounds, then I said we can't do that, then she showed me the rule book, then I scratched my head and decided to get some clarification  ???.   :D

Garrison Joe

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Re: Loading 8 rounds in 1911 mags
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2019, 10:50:55 PM »
wanted to tell everyone to load 8 rounds

Some WB troopers will have magazines that only hold 7 rounds.   Even if the rules were clear here, don't REQUIRE loading 8 in mags.  Don't force shooters to either buy different mags, or have to miss a shooting event they wanted to do.

At the very least, let them do a two-mag loadout that gives them 8 shots.   Five and three, or seven and one. 

Good luck, GJ
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 10:52:27 PM by Garrison Joe »
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Happy Jack

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Re: Loading 8 rounds in 1911 mags
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2019, 11:01:49 AM »
I agree completely with the posts by Legendary Lawman and Boggus Deal on this matter.  I do not however see a need to write another "rule".  It is perfectly legal to overload your magazine in any firearm in WBAS. We don't care if you do so. HOWEVER, if you leave that live round in the chamber or fire it there are penalties already clearly spelled out.

WBAS shooters Handbook  January 2019  version 12.1

Page 20:   SDQ  A live round left in the chamber of a long gun
Page 20:   SDQ A cocked pistol with a live round in the chamber leaving the shooters hand.

Page 26    Procedural     .......overloaded rounds that are fired will be a procedural. Any targets hit with that ammo will be           scored as misses. No adjustments will be made to the raw stage time.
1911's RULE !!!

Boomstick Bruce

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Re: Loading 8 rounds in 1911 mags
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2019, 10:21:16 PM »
sooo say i load 8 in one of my kimber mags, fire the first 3, 4th round FTF, so i clear it and fire the remaining 4 rounds and still be legal???